Reactions, Yours And Mine
Well its morning time and unfortunately this was not just a nightmare that will fade from memory in the morning light.
A reader echoes this sentiment after reading my post "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will Be Done"
I just read your blog entry with this title, and it comes very close to the way I feel--everything you said about America and socialism, the babies, the justice of God the Lord of history. The profound sadness...yes. The resignation, yes. I feel a little as if someone has died, complete with the hopeless hope that when I wake up tomorrow I will find that they got it wrong. I feel a little better reading what I know many Catholics also feel...what I think of Catholics who voted for Obama I am trying not to think. I hope you will continue to write about this season to come, because I am convinced of it being a desert time for the souls in the Church, and I bet I'm not the only one who could use a buffering word.It does have that next day mourning feeling after someone has died but it has yet to fully sink in. Even with that, we know life goes on.
A commenter on my previous post took issue with my assertion that God is in charge of history saying "Our Lord said very clearly 3 times in the gospel of John that it is indeed Satan who is the 'prince of this world'." Yes, but no. I am too tired to go into any detail in this post, but suffice it to say that God allows Satan his temporary dominion and there is no doubt that God can restrict that dominion if He so pleases.
A quote from Glenn Olsen about the future of the Church sums it up nicely I think.
I have no delusion that I or anyone else can sit down and in some comprehensive way plan the future. We can know what sides to take in the great struggle of our days, but it can not be stressed too much that God is the author of history, and all history lies in his hands. What is asked of us is fidelity. We should expect neither to succeed nor to fail: this is in God's hand. Likely, our lives and the age that is upon us will be mixed, with both triumphs and losses. In any case nothing in history lasts, and we would be advised to think more in categories of "temporary" or "mixed" successes and "temporary" or "mixed" reverses.One last thing on this point, we should all recall the Blessed Mother's promise of a period of peace. We know that the consecration was done, albeit late, and we still await the period of peace as promised. God keeps his promises.
Clichés are phrases that have been overused due to the simple truth that they express. Let me use a cliché to express my hope for the future, my trust in God and in His promises. It is always darkest before the dawn.
44 comments:
The Catholic health care system has reason to be afraid, if they are forced to provide abortions and other "reproductive services." Many bishops will be forced into confrontations with hospital systems that want to "play ball" with the new administration. Or they may be faced with revoking the name "Catholic" from all hospitals in their realm.
Next will be the effect on Catholic schools. If Obama is elected to a second term, he will be confident enough to force "family life education" programs on non-public schools. This will provoke considerable opposition, as schools reach Catholics at the everyday parish level.
Some will make a point about the significance of times of "purification" in the Church's history. If only in the USA, we may be at the dawn of one of them. We have seen Obama supporters take to the streets and devote considerable time and energy to see their man elected. It was more than a candidacy; it was a cause. Can we expect the same from button-down, straight-laced, white-picket-fence suburban "conservative" Catholics?
I'm not so sure. That worries me more than the above.
Your thoughts and feelings are so similar to mine that it isn't worth my repeating. My morning even came complete with a rush to the computer in my pajamas to see what PA looked like with 99% reporting.
I'm glad that we are on this desert journey together but I hope the promised land comes soon.
After what Obama said about the coal industry, I'm shocked that Pennsylvania went "blue." Can anyone explain that?
What happened to record turnout? 130-140MM voters? I'm seeing what, about 118MM.
Also, it looks to be a 5% win in the popular vote for Obama rather than the 11-13% they all predicted. So they were off, but not as far off as we hoped.
Especially PA (btw, what happened to that post from yesterday to that "brilliant" article that gave us all false hope? Heh heh. I would have pretended that never happened too, if I had a blog that people actually read.)
Can anyone explain that?
Yes, Obama promised hand outs. And to his voting block (which now appears to have the majority) that is what matters. Not unborn children, not the country....a handout.
I pray and pray that this will be temporary. Not for my sake but for the sake of my children. I fear the kind of country they will inherit. I can't express how much this has saddened me.
I have been prepared for this day for over a year. I have talked to many of my Catholic or other conservative friends who simply cannot believe that our nation has come to this. Sadly, it has been in the cards for a very long time and no one has said a word until it has become to late. We must now, as Catholics, focus on what to do next. If you want to really be concerned, look at ALL the ballot measures that passed, in what states, and by how wide a margin. This will tell you what we have to look forward to.
1)California: NO to Dr.'s notifying the parents of minors 48 hours before performing an abortion.
2) Colorado: OVERWHELMINGLY by 73% REJECT defining personhood from the moment of conception. (Colorado was a Red State in 2004. This year voting for Obama by 53%. Where'd that other 20% of voters come from?)
3) Michigan--Allow stem cell research on unwanted embryos left over from "parents" IVF treatments.
4) S. Dakota--Voted by 55% to NOT limit abortion to rape, incest, and mother's life. (Are these the same 55% of voters who voted for McCain in this Red State?)
5) Washington--Voted to allow Dr. assisted Suicide.
Most of our nation truly believes that human life is not exceptional but expendable when it is no longer convenient or happy. Sadly, many Christians have adopted this mentality as well. Christians, especially Catholics, have embraced all the lies of Satan as truth and claim them as pragmatic or modern. Christians have a lot of work to do--from the inside out.
May God have mercy on us all.
Peace only comes after the chastisement, remember. And after the world embraces socialism.
Well all this has put a fire in my belly! We are living in a time where we have adversity to overcome, and where we can shine as lights in the darkness. God put all of us here at this time and in this place for a reason. We must fight the good fight. I say, bring it on!
When we had a republican president and majority in the senate - nothing was done about abortion. Honestly - I don't think anything would have been done about it with McCain. It is not as high on his list of priorities as some of his supporters seem to think. He actually agrees with abortion in the cases of rape and incest, and I believe he mentioned that a girl wouldn't even need proof of this, just would have to tell the doctor it was rape, to get an abortion if it was up to him. So if you thought voting McCain was a vote for life - I think it was a bit optimistic.
And this world already has socialist aspects to it - and it will continue to do so. A pure capitalist society is not perfect. A pure socialist society is not perfect. I see no problem with having more of a capitalist society with some aspects being socialist. And honestly - I think we all know that with Obama as president those who work jobs will live better lives than those who don't. And that there will still be a large gap between the rich and the poor. It has never been a serious concern of mine that an Obama election would mean my hard working husband and I (who have worked hard to earn our high degrees and get our good jobs) would suddently be living the same quality of life as a jobless person. I think we all know this is a false accusation and if you want to test it out just quit your job and see how great your quality of life becomes. Plus we are Christian so the idea of helping out the poor with slightly higher taxes for those making lots of money shouldn't scare us.
It will be ok you all, you'll see.
Sad sad night. I wrote my thoughts here http://enjoythejourney-marilyn.blogspot.com/2008/11/sad-sad-night.html
This might sound obscure, but I think about how Chistians in the Age of Byzantium must have felt.
I mean, their leaders were corrupt and fecless, and their Empire was crumbling more amd more, year after year, under the grinding wheel of Islam.
Thinking about the greatness of what was, watching the slow erosion of everything that was good and right.
Or how about Christian Britain, the flower that it was, only to watch it be destroyed year after year by barbarian tribes. only to survive in isolated places like Cornwall. Britain had to be re-evangelized from the outside.
It's times like these that I think about the fact that, one of the biggest clubs non-Catholics used against JFK (and Al Smith before him) was the fear that he would be a Catholic first, and an American second.
I am considering that this is not such a bad thing. I am coming more and more to the conclusion that I am a Catholic first, and an American second; especially when my faith is going one way, and my country is going another.
Roman Britania came and Went, Byzantium came and went, and, unfortunatley, I think (although perhaps not in my lifetime) that America will go the same way.
Christ said he would be with us 'till the end of time. He did not Say America would be until the end of time.
Sorry for the sombre morose rant...
Just remember, after the israelites whined and belly-ached for a king, they got stuck with Saul.
But after that, they got David and Solomon.....
Catholic conservatives need to get our act together.... 527s, think tanks, the works....
I am asking the Lord to guide my often angry thoughts into more calm, wise, and manly ones, and not to
abandon us, we poor sinners. We all need, especially us conservatives and orthodox Judeo-Christians,
a period of quiet, of regeneration, of hope.
As I mentioned to my son last night, some victories are but pyrrhic in nature...and while we know that much
Evil lies within the agenda of the newly elected Democrats, we must allow the Lord the time now needed
to quiet our own troubled hearts and to offer His grace to the victors. Till the inauguration (or coronation),
the news will be obsessed with his grandiosity.
On the bright side, the Democrats are known for being ruthless, but also for being incompetent. For which we can thank the
Lord. I would brace myself, my dear friends, for some rough economic, social, and foreign policy waters ahead.
On a practical note, I renewed my membership in the NRA, recalling the words of the WWI song, "Praise
the Lord and pass the ammunition."
Now, I am off to the 8:45 mass and will stop at chapel right after so as to spend a few more minutes with
Christ.
Let us pray for our unborn infants as FOCA looms menacingly on the horizon and for all those milquetoast priests,
those liberal-first Catholics, those silent bishops who now must bear upon their own souls the deaths of
these children of God...because of their fear, cupidity, or stupidity...and I know a few right here.
Yet, much good came out of all this...as many, many more bishops, and many, many more Catholics stood up publicly to
denounce this newly elected Adminstration of Death and Degeneracy. That may have been God's own plan
all along.
The point being now to know that God is our ultimate strength...and is both our ends and our means. Beyond that
whether Obama or Hilary or whomever...soon all the campaign posters will yellow, decay and blow away in the winter winds.
To paraphrase Our Lord,
"Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed...Take heed that no man seduce you: For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many...Heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass."
I felt physically ill after the polls in CA closed. I went to bed sad and ill. And I feel sad this morning. My husband told me all we can do is pray. That God can make good things out of what seems bad. He is right. All we can do is pray.
Now is a time to focus upon th evirtue of hope, and to pray heavily for the conversion of our future president to a better way of thinking.
"To give the devil his due: as a "caucasian" man with a "black" wife and 4 "bi-racial" children..."
Actually, other blacks would have identified him as a "mulatto." But I think many of them were willing to overlook that detail for what they perceive as a larger purpose. Events have forced the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton out of the spotlight. If they can just stay there, we might be able to make progress in this area. A lot depends on how President-elect Obama sees himself, and this issue.
Next February is Black History month. We might have an idea by then.
I am not American, but I have followed these elections closely and when I learned about the news, it left me deeply saddened. Until now, I am troubled with the outcome. It might sound ridiculous coming from an outsider, but the universality of the Church has taught me that these little ones are my brothers and sisters and when they are killed, I am also hurt.
We will be praying for America. In the end, those who fight the good faith have nothing to lose. God is still in control.
As for the historic note of the election, I wish Barack Obama had been a conservative, or at least much less leftist. The lingering issues of his validity as a candidate, and his socialist agenda, anything the slightest bit not above board makes it difficult and/or impossible for the country as a whole to get behind him. And every time someone disagrees with his policies, it will be seen as racist. That's not healing or unifying.
I was in Illinois last night, visiting a seminarian friend at Mundelein Seminary in Chicago (where I think D Mac teaches??). I happened to stumble upon the priest's council meeting for diocese of Chicago, and what did I see? The priests of Chicago gathered around a television cheering on Obama's victory. I couldn't believe it.
The election of Obama isn't what saddens me most -- Bush was so unpopular, almost any Democratic ticket could've gotten elected.
What saddens me more is to see how voters in places like South Dakota voted for abortion. That tells me that this country really is on the path to degeneration and destruction. We are a nation that clearly places our own interests above our children's.
"And every time someone disagrees with his policies, it will be seen as racist. That's not healing or unifying..."
...but it IS a form of bullying. Take it from someone who dealt a lot with bullies as a child. They respect those who stand up to them. They have contempt for those who roll over.
The choice is a simple one. Carrying it out is what's hard. "No, you can't prove I'm a racist, but I can prove you're a liar."
"In this world ye shall have tribulations, but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33).
Sometimes, I wonder if I'd be better off if I moved to Alaska, joined the AIP and had them separate from the US.
No, you wouldn't be better off... did you read the Weekly Standards article about life in Alaska?
It's ROUGH there... like "staking a claim by living in a basement with a woodstove and no water for the entire winter" rough.....
I doubt most of us are tought enough to make it in Alaska....
"Not mulatto, David, "bright" or "mixed" - "mulatto" is a white man's word...."
...which I have heard blacks use, especially down South. I do know that variations in skin is an issue within that ethnic group, and occasionally the cause for some resentment. Spike Lee address this in one of his movies, about black college sorority life. Anyone remember it?
If the african american community thinks that Obama's election is going to some how restitute for the past, they're in for a BIG surprise.
DL, Marc et al
I think it would be best if we dropped this line of discussion. It is not really relevant and easily misunderstood. Just a suggestion.
The heck with the whining and navel gazing. Even if McCain had won, social conservatives & prolifers would have had their work cut out for them. This just helps seperate the summer soldiers from the rest.
Time to get to work, it's harvest time in God's vineyard and the workers are few.
What saddens me more is to see how voters in places like South Dakota voted for abortion.
I think some pro-life people voted against it because it was not perfectly pro-life (i.e. allowed exceptions for rape, incest, or to save the mother's life). Also was told by a friend whose sister was working for the measure that at least one local pro-life org was not supporting it, whether for this reason or because it would be overturned by the courts anyway, or for some other reason, I don't know.
When we don't have unity, it hurts the pro-life movement and those defenseless ones we are trying to protect.
My big question is how to relate to the "cafeteria Catholics" who we know campaigned for Obama? The neighbors who in my mind hate children and want them killed just for a little extra $$ in their pocket? (not that they will get any, that mention of everyone having to sacrifice in the speech last night was perplexing a great many in the crowd in Chicago)
"When we had a republican president and majority in the senate - nothing was done about abortion."
What do you call the ban on Partial Birth Abortion and the Unborn Victims of Violence Act and the Born Alive Infant Protection Act?
You can say what you want about President Bush but he nominated 2 extremely excellent Supreme Court justices who are strict constructionists -- so your claims abou the GOP have no basis in fact.
Well it seems that many of us still have hope. Especially for the next election. Perhaps people will wake up to what they let into office. However, I highly doubt it. What I see in this election is my generation starting to take power in the electoral process. I also see the lost parents of my generation trying to relate to their children and re-live their past by mimicking them. In all honesty I believe that this is only the steepening of a downward spiral that we have been on for a long time. As we become a morally debased nation (or western hemisphere) we not only look for salvation (unconsciously) in pseudo messiahs suck as Barak but we also look for what we can do to feed our pride- with such things as his supposed handouts. Basically the American person has become a baby again. This person has regressed into the mindset of a child. As Catholics, along with many orthodox Christians, those that truly have faith are going to suffer for the Church. Only through this suffering are we going to be reminded of the potency of God's love. Only though this suffering are the scabs and sores that cling to Holy Mother Church going to fall away. Only through tremendous suffering are we going to be ripped out of the clutches of the world and set apart as a light shining in darkness. No longer mixed into the twilight of uncertainty we will come to be at ultimate contrast with the world and its ways. The days of false and misleading compassion and relativism are coming to an end. Please Lord, through this suffering, allow your Church to become vividly in contrast to the world and its ways so that it may draw sinners into repentance and your mercy.
The consecration most definitely was not done, in audacious defiance of Our Lady's wishes on the part of certain Modernists. And it is particularly dangerous that many Catholics have fallen under the erroneous impression that this consecration has been performed. "The world" was consecrated to Our Lady, and I am sure that She does not object to such, but that is not what She asked. She asked Russia to be consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart, and this was never done. Her sweetest words:
"...the moment has come for God to ask the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart. By this means, He promises to save Russia."
The whole point was that Jesus desired to show, through this act of consecration, His power to save even Russia. If the promise of peace made by Our Lady were to come about without the precise execution of Her Son's Will, as she made plain to us, then it would be spurious: it would not be clear that the peace came from God and His Mother. We must continue to pray that the Holy Father will finally fulfill this most direct manifestation of the Divine Will. Until then, the world cannot know peace.
~cmpt
I couldn't help thinking about how decades of allowing dissident theologians a paid platform in Catholic institutions affected the outcome of this election.
The Catholic politicians didn't cook up their "Catholic" positions on their own. Those arguments they used on Meet the Press and other public venues likely originated from loop-hole theologians.
Those same theologians always seem to find their way onto our television screens, paraded before us as "experts" in Catholicism, all the while presenting anything but authentic Catholic teaching.
Until they lose their good standing, the bishops will continue to be undermined.
Think about it. These people are being paid by Catholic institutions to pander doctrines that are inconsistent with Catholicisim. It's madness.
See my post election commentary, Blessed are they who mourn...
"The consecration most definitely was not done, in audacious defiance of Our Lady's wishes on the part of certain Modernists. And it is particularly dangerous that many Catholics have fallen under the erroneous impression that this consecration has been performed..."
Among those deceived are the Holy See, which issued a statement confirming the consecration, and Sister Lucia, who confirmed this in an interview at the time.
How did we get on this subject anyway?
(Now, here's the part where he comes back and tells you the woman playing Sister Lucia was an imposter. Any minute now...)
David,
You are a mediocre comedian. Stop trying... ;-)
I am well aware that the Holy See confirmed a consecration. They confirmed that the world had in fact been consecrated to Our Lady. I'd love to see a Vatican document giving the precise formula used for the consecration, and to see Russia explicitly stated as the object of the consecration. Please, prove me wrong. I desire nothing more... If this consecration has in fact occurred, that would great news.
As for Sister Lucia, she confirmed what the Holy See told her to confirm: that the world had been consecrated. Her "confirmation" is not in some way authoritative that the proper consecration has taken place. We have Our Lady's words in black and white. She was plain. Again, I'd love to see something from the Vatican confirming a Russia-explicit formula of consecration. Short of that, however, I see no reason to believe that the consecration took place, until Rome says it has.
The better question here is why would you believe this consecration took place the way that Our Lady asked, when by the Holy See's own admission, the Holy Father consecrated the world and not Russia?
~cmpt
"You are a mediocre comedian. Stop trying... We have Our Lady's words in black and white."
You're right. You're much better at getting laughs. "Our Lady's words" are those of a private revelation, which while approved for promotion of the faithful, are not binding with the theological virtue of Faith. If it wasn't done exactly as one might expect (or in the way the vision of Our Lady is reported to have called for), Russia is part of the world, and therefore was consecrated. For now, that will have to do. That may seem cavalier, but I'd rather be a mediocre comedian than a lousy apologist.
I'll hand it to you, though; you didn't fall for that old "Sister Lucia is an imposter" trick.
David,
If you choose not to believe in Fatima, that is most certainly your prerogative. But the position that the apparition took place as the children said it did, and that Our Lady's request was fulfilled as she asked, is an untenable one.
"Russia is part of the world, and therefore was consecrated..."
Sure, Our Lady and Her Son have always been huge fans of equivocation. This worked out very well for so many characters in the Old Testament and for Ananias and Sapphira in Acts, didn't it? There was no good reason not to explicitly mention Russia other than an absence of proper intention to actually consecrate the country Our Lady asked. That is all...
~cmpt
Actually, I am inclined to believe that the apparitions at Fatima occurred. Unlike most of the "eat-drink-and-see-Mary" crowd, however, I also leave what to make of Our Lady's words, and what to do about them, to the judgment of those who shepherd the Church that Her Son established on Earth, including the successor to Peter.
Read what the Catechism says about private revelations, and quit b!†©#ing about it when Rome doesn't meet your every teeny-weeny expectation about matters not essential to the Faith.
Oh, and another thing. This thread isn't even ABOUT the apparitions at Fatima!
David,
Chill out dude... Whoosah, my friend. Really, it isn't that big of a deal. Why does everybody get so excited about this sort of a thing? I mentioned the consecration because Patrick did:
"One last thing on this point, we should all recall the Blessed Mother's promise of a period of peace. We know that the consecration was done, albeit late, and we still await the period of peace as promised. God keeps his promises."
In my private theological opinion, the consecration wasn't performed, and therefore peace is not promised as Patrick seems to think. It isn't promised because we didn't keep up our end of the bargain. That is all I was trying to say. But since you insist, bring on the peace! ;-)
I am more than aware what the Catechism says about apparitions. Better yet, I know what the Pontiffs and Councils say about apparitions. For some reason, people think the Catechism is infallible or something. It isn't. The Catechism was put together for all the people too busy or too lazy to read the doctrine from original sources. Why read the Catechism when we have the original sources of the concerned doctrine?
Back to my point: I don't think the consecration that Our Lady asked happened. Therefore, no peace. That is all I was saying. And I am the last person to expect Rome to be perfect. It obviously isn't and I accept that. You seem to have me pegged as one of the people Cardinal Hoyos recently rebuked for being "insatiable." I. am. not. that. guy. Take it easy, you'll need your apologetic energies for the next four years! Friends?
Vester frater,
~cmpt
"You seem to have me pegged as one of the people Cardinal Hoyos recently rebuked for being "insatiable." I. am. not. that. guy. Take it easy, you'll need your apologetic energies for the next four years! Friends?"
Yes, you are forgiven. Go in peace, my son. And read my blog. You might learn something.
PAX
Lets be serious, you have many whose only source of information are blogs like this, where the Mark Shea's of the world who are out there speaking and writing for supposed mainstream Catholic journals sit there and day in and day out bash the GOP over of all things torture, so what happens? You get a pro abortion, pro gay marriage president presiding over the free world, rushed to and congratulated by the Vicar of Christ?
Would Pope Pius X reach out the day after to congratulate him? Did Pius XII congratulate Mussolini on taking over Italy? And yes I am comparing the genocide of the unborn to Mussolini.
Get back to the basics, the faith of 40 and 50 years ago when Catholics voted as a block, today they are taken for granted and stand for nothing, have no morals and the present day Popes actually never ever even recognize the teachings of the church before 1962-1965, like it never existed. Can anyone please show me where Pope JPII or B16 for that matter even referred to an encyclical written by a Pope before John XXIII or a council other than Vatican II?
So we have modernism at its zenith
By the way, I know that Mussolini was in power before Pius XII, but was using such as an example before the Sarah Palin like pundits start throwing jabs!
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