Catholics Turning to GOP
Are Catholics finally turning their back on the party of death? As we all know, a majority of self identified Catholics voted for Barack Obama for President.
But this past week a number of polls have shown a stunning turnaround; an exodus of sorts from the Democrat Party. The Telegraph reports:
The Democrats' 10-point lead among Catholic voters has been reversed into a 24-point Republican advantage.That's pretty startling.
Now, of course the pessimist in me wonders if it's simply the bad economy that's pushing that vote or is it the realization of many Catholics that the Democrat Party is the party of death panels, federal funding of abortion and behemoth government that aims to crowd out the Church from public life.
I don't get out much because it's still illegal to velcro the kids to the carpet and leave the house. In fact I think Punxsutawney Phil gets out more than I do but when I do I've heard from a few people that they simply forgot how radical the Democrat party was and the last two years have served as a shocking reminder which have made them flee the Democrat Party.
I don't think we'll know why this happened until perhaps 2012. I don't think we'll know for sure what's driving this Catholic shift away from the Democrat Party until the economy improves.
But if the Republicans prove themselves to be the pro-life, limited government, and traditional values party I wonder if many Catholics will find a long term home there.
25 comments:
In Massachusetts, Republicans aren't the type of Republicans you are speaking of.
"Party of death"? Being pro-life involves more than opposing abortion. Being truly pro-life involves investing each human life with dignity, and the Republican party's disrespect for the poor and disenfranchised of America, the previous administration's use of torture on detainees from the War on Terror, and Republican support of the death penalty all paint a portrait of a party that pays only lip service to the notion of pro-life. As a Catholic in Europe, where there is a strong tradition of political liberalism and Catholicism going hand in hand, the American tendency to associate Christianity with the right wing makes me nervous.
What Rachel said.
Also, to think that the bulk of self-identifying Catholics in this country have suddenly started giving a crap about life issues might be one of the more opportunistically, hope-predacious pieces of claptrap I've heard recently. Catholics in this country are voting the economy, the same as everybody else who doesn't have a persistent list of issues. I imagine that if they did actually have a pro-life ethos all of a sudden, that we'd see the third party vote spike, or a bunch of Catholics stay home as a statement.
I would love if it were true that Catholics in this country abruptly cared. But there is absolutely no basis to infer that result from the evidence given. To do so would be an indication of not merely fuzzy logic, but logic that has derezzed.
Oh, I did hear something somewhat more legitimate, though...seems like the unicorn vote is moving away from Obama in droves, which may just imply that they are re-embracing the commitment to being sparkly and magical. We obviously won't know for a while, it could just be that the economy has made their primary foodstuff - wheat and corn watered by the happy tears of the world's children - has become unimaginably dear. But still, it's heartening, isn't it?
Rachel, you are correct that any alliance with Republicans by Catholics should be (and is fwiw) a very uneasy one for the reasons you cite. That is, Republicans can sure exploit us on abortion for sure. As far as disrespect for the poor and disenfranchised, that's kind of a paper-thin caricature especially given that the Democrat's treatment of the poor and disenfranchised has been one more of crass and dehumanizing exploitation than real concern. Also, Democrats have largely abandoned being a foil against the death penalty because it is politically easy to do so (and even then the death penalty is not intrinsicly evil like abortion is). As far as torture, you are right. It's a dealbreaker, but note this: When Captain 9/11 Rudy Guiliani was the shoe-in for the GOP nomination, many conservatives and Catholics heavily objected and boom, he was booted. There is simply nothing like that on the Dem's side. In fact, when Obama and Hillary were fighting for the nomination, each was claiming that they were MORE pro-choice than the other.
Re: "But if the Republicans prove themselves to be the pro-life, limited government, and traditional values party I wonder if many Catholics will find a long term home there."
If looks like there isn't much of a choice. In the worst case scenario, the GOP is still the lesser evil. The Democrats will not jettison the NOW/PP mob, so that alone will make them the party of abortion - the intrinsic evil that makes it unconscionable to support.
Oh, my. Here we go again. The nebulous charges about "disrespecting" the poor and disenfranchised. All the while our friends on the left, under the guise of so-called caring have ensured a permanent underclass or poor and disenfranchised and dependent.
How is THAT charitable? How is THAT Christian? The strictures to do for the least of our brethren is an individual and not a collective mandate. We do not fulfill the commands of Christ when we advocate the police power of the state be used to take one man's property and give it to another.
If you REALLY want to be mindful of the poor you will a) extend yourself to them PERSONALLY in charity and b) vote for a government where the means of escaping that poverty are maximized.
Archbishop (soon to be Cardinal) Burke. Check with his recent statements regarding our obligation to vote a well formed conscience. Life is the first and highest priority. If life itself doen't matter, then nothing else does.
"But if the Republicans prove themselves to be the pro-life, limited government, and traditional values party I wonder if many Catholics will find a long term home there."
I am of the opinion that Catholics should be wary of aligning themselves with ANY political party. The Republicans, with a few exceptions, have turned out to be a huge disappointment from a Catholic perspective, and I really don't see them doing much better in that regard in the future. In fact, I believe they will seek to further marginalize social conservatives and focus almost exclusively on fiscal and foreign policy. That said, the Democrat Party, in its current party-of-death composition, is something for which I could NEVER vote.
"... the Republican party's disrespect for the poor and disenfranchised of America, the previous administration's use of torture on detainees from the War on Terror, and Republican support of the death penalty all paint a portrait of a party that pays only lip service to the notion of pro-life. As a Catholic in Europe, where there is a strong tradition of political liberalism and Catholicism going hand in hand, the American tendency to associate Christianity with the right wing makes me nervous."
The only European from whom I'm interested in being preached at is named Benedict. The U.S. has its fair share of problems, but I doubt things have gotten so bad that we require input on the proper way to do faith in the public square from those with militantly secularist governments (except when they're kowtowing to Islam) and whose churches sit empty except when tourists show up to gawk or when they are converted to mosques.
And while I oppose capital punishment, I find it slightly uncompelling to be admonished on the subject by those living in countries whose idea of "justice" for murderers is a slap on the wrist and sending terrorists who have blown up a planeload of school kids back to a hero's welcome in Libya.
The Repubican Party isn't perfect, but at least the grass roots of the party are committed to traditional values. The Tea Partiers are a good sign of this commitment. If they keep the heat on the candidate after he's elected, they have a good chance of keep their winnings.
Rachael, you sound like you've been drinking from the same well that Mark Shea gets his water from. Your langauge is identical. Please, go to another well, where the water isn't so bitter!
Amen Jay.
I don't know of very many Republicans who hold the values that you mention. In fact, in Washington state, many of them are "pro-choice" and/or believe in exceptions. Locally, the Republican party tends to steer clear of the truly pro-life candidates.
In Texas we turn to the Rebublican Party in hopes it remains pro-life. When I vote it is a vote against the pro abortion agenda--which is always Democratic. I usually do not care much for the Republican choice, but it is all we have...
But if the Republicans prove themselves to be the pro-life, limited government, and traditional values party I wonder if many Catholics will find a long term home there.
If they did that, I would find my home. But we have to be honest, in recent history and on average, they have either proven themselves not to be that party or not to be genuinely that party. Therefore, in general, that party is no home for Catholics.
And, sadly, Der Wolfanwalt does have a point. If more Catholics really were Catholic first and voted Catholic, the third party vote would make a serious jump. Imagine the impact such a thing would have on the two main parties. As long as we keep allowing ourselves to be duped and/or scared and/or threatened into compromising our Catholicism in our vote, we are just going to get more of what we have: a Party of Death and a Party of Pro-Life Rhetoric.
I don't always agree with Michael Voris, but he crushes this one out of the park: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-qGlo6p9A
"Republican party's disrespect for the poor and disenfranchised..."
I don't consider myself a Republican and generally consider that party a "less worse" version of the Democrats. But #1, social justice issues, death penalty, war, etc. do not even come remotely close to the level of gravity of abortion and the number of resultant deaths.
#2, speaking of social justice issues and treatment of the poor and "disenfranchised," Christ calls us to give of our wealth. The Democratic / liberal agenda, on the other hand, demands to give of OUR NEIGHBOR's wealth (otherwise known as legalized theft). Many liberals fail to distinguish between charity and forced redistribution of wealth/income. When you willingly and freely give of your wealth, that's charity. When you force others to redistribute THEIR wealth, that's theft.
@ Anonymous: You're kidding, right? I'm not trying to reduce the moral importance of abortion, but respect for human life encompasses that whole list. You can't be pro-life and pro-abortion, but you also can't be pro-torture, you can't support proactive war - according to the Vatican - you can't support killing old people (or, I would argue, even packing them away into retirement homes)...the list goes on. I would probably add a number of things on to it that would offend the dainty sensibilities of those who consider the conservative movement to be a Third Order of sorts, but for the sake of brevity I'll just say that in almost every single way that counts the Republicans disappoint me as badly as the Democrats. More so, in fact, since the Dems are honest with me as to what their agenda is, while the Republicans pretend to share my values at exactly the same time as they're screwing me over.
As far as I'm concerned, this is the GOP's last chance. If they don't start delivering on their lip service soon, then I will be voting against them in favor of the most apparently ineffectual candidates I can find. I'm tired of them telling me that their piss is just the rain.
The capitalist Republicans want all boats to rise, through opportunity and education. If those with ideas are constantly pushed down by regulation and high taxes then they will not reach their full potential. They want all children to have the opportunity to learn and reach their potential in the classroom, not just provide a job for those in the teacher's unions.
The Democrats are in favor of killing, taxing, and dumbing down the poor and disenfranchised.
I for one, a registered Republican, am a Conservative First and foremost. God is who I want to follow, not a party. I have been sorely dissapointed with the Republicans, but the Democrats are much much worse.
I echo that charity for the poor should come from the Individual and not be forced. Jesus wanted each heart to individually change.
A study by Dr. Brooks of Syracuse University has shown conservatives give 36% more to charity then liberals even though liberals on average make about 6% more in salary. This study dispels two myths, one that conservatives are not charitable, and two, that conservatives are wealthy and want to keep it for themselves.
There are men (and women) in both parties who are greedy and evil but I have only the knowledge told to me by the candidates. And I say this, greed from the government is far worse then the Private sector where we would have far more recourse to take action. Government needs to be smaller. The greatest atrocities are performed on massive scale by Government! So, if as the author says, the Republicans truly embrace smaller government, embrace life, and traditional values I will vote for them. The Democratic party Platform states that they want women to have a "choice" on THEIR PLATFORM. No one here would condone torture, but no where on the platform does it say THE REPUBLICANS EMBRACE Torture. We can only know what they tell us publically. We can vote new people in when they lie to us. But the Democratic party outright proclaims on the platform, DEATH.
Der Wolfanwalt, no, I am not kidding. Once again, I don't care much for the Republicans either. But they are "less terrible" than the Dems. You can't choose to accept abortion with the excuse that all these other things add up to to being just as bad. "All these other things" don't come remotely close to adding up to the equivalent of 50 million + murders and continuing, and it's disingenuous to vote Democrat under that reasoning. And I stand by my statements regarding charity vs. theft. We both agree that Republicans are certainly nothing great. But where we may disagree (I'm not sure) is with the notion that a person can reasonably refuse to vote Republican based on principles like these, but then turn around and vote Democrat. I often vote third-party myself. I also agree with the idea of voting for ineffectual candidates under certain circumstances, as no legislation is always better than bad legislation.
Republicans are alleged to "disrespect the poor and disenfranchised," but never is there a specific ideentification of the poor so disrespected nor of how that disrespect takes place. Who are the "disenfranchised" (convicted felons?), unless one means those who have not reached legal majority. Republicans failed hugely to act according to constitutional principles, both in pursuing a war in which no clear and present danger was obvious, (a war voted for by most democrats as well) and in allowing the federal government to spend money that it did not have. But the charge against the poor and "disenfranchised" is without foundation. The democrats seek to achieve "social justice" (egalitarianism) with extra-constitutional programs that have thus far benefitted neither the poor nor the country as a whole. In short, Republicans have done poorly; democrats have done even worse.
In California Carly Fiorini is a pro life senate candidate. Please vote for her. If you vote for Democrats you will be voting in government paid, unlimited abortions on request, paid for sterilization on request, and free birth control. You will also be voting in gay marriage across the nation. Obama has recently said he is changing his mind on the topic. Expect more euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, cloning, and more genetically modified foods and restrictions on food consumption. Expect more government control of water. Ask the Central Valley in California how brown the fields are and how they feel about Barbara Boxer. How much more convincing do you need that the Democrat party is the party of death.
I am voting for pro-life Carly Fiorina.
the Republican party's disrespect for the poor and disenfranchised of America, the previous administration's use of torture on detainees from the War on Terror, and Republican support of the death penalty all paint a portrait of a party that pays only lip service to the notion of pro-life.
The poor, the pets of the Democrats, the poster child dusted off and brought out each election. The policies of the Democrat Party intentionally perpetuate poverty rather then lift the poor to a better level of livelihood. If the Democrats truly cared about the poor they'd give them educational choice, affordable job training, jobs, and the dignity of expectation.
Bush & "torture" - policies put in place by Clinton, used by Bush and continued by Obama today. D's beat R's 2:1.
Death Penalty - #2267 CCC
the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty
The death penalty is not considered intrinsic evil and not part of platform of the Republican Party. As Susan mentioned above neither is torture a part of the platform. Abortion IS and intrinsic evil AND part of the Democratic Party's platform.
The Democrats overwhelmingly support gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research, euthanasia and cloning - all considered intrinsic evils.
Yeah, the R's might not be perfect... and oh the Dems dropped the bomb - twice. Bleh!
I am so tired of the Democratic talking points regarding conservatives and the poor. The facts state that conservatives out give liberals. Look at any inner city that has been run by Democrats for decades and ask yourself if their programs are working.
Liberal socialist programs are when the government comes along and snatches the dollar out of your hand that you're about to give to your neighbor in need. They then in turn give your neighbor .25 cents and lecture you on helping the poor, meanwhile lining their pockets with remaining .75 cents.
The GOP absolutely needs to clean up its' act and get back to smaller government and fiscal responsibility, but true conservatism far outweighs the socialistic/communistic ideals that have taken over the Democratic party.
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