Cardinal Dolan Explains Al Smith Invite
Cardinal Dolan has my prayers but I think this is a huuuuge mistake.
You can read his whole explanation here but here's a nugget:
Some have told me the invitation is a scandal. That charge weighs on me, as it would on any person of faith, but especially a pastor, who longs to give good example, never bad. So, I apologize if I have given such scandal. I suppose it’s a case of prudential judgment: would I give more scandal by inviting the two candidates, or by not inviting them?This event will be used by the Obama campaign to further its chances at re-election.
No matter what you might think of this particular decision, might I ask your prayers for me and my brother bishops and priests who are faced with making these decisions, so that we will be wise and faithful shepherds as God calls us to be?
In the end, I’m encouraged by the example of Jesus, who was blistered by his critics for dining with those some considered sinners; and by the recognition that, if I only sat down with people who agreed with me, and I with them, or with those who were saints, I’d be taking all my meals alone.
I'll probably write more about this later and Pat probably will as well but I just wanted to get this up for your perusal.
35 comments:
Cut the guy some slack. One issue that I have with those of us in the Church is that we are too quick to pass judgement and criticize those in leadership roles within the Church. I see it in my own diocese, the Diocese of St. Petersburg, Fl. I may not agree with everything (or anything) my bishop says, but he deserves my respect. It's not easy being a priest or a bishop, let alone the archbishop of New York AND the president of the USCCB. Cardubak Dolan is a wonderful, holy man of God and he needs our prayers, as you say. But he also needs our support, as do all priests and bishops, particularly ones who are doing their best to uphold the official doctrine of our Church, like Cdl. Dolan is trying to do.
Pray for him. Support him. And refrain from criticizing him when he doesn't do exactly what you would like him to do.
oops. Where did I get "cardubak" from. I meant to say Cardinal.
Tim Burke said...
"Cut the guy some slack. One issue that I have with those of us in the Church is that we are too quick to pass judgement and criticize those in leadership roles within the Church."
PUH-LEEEZE!...he runs out of town on the eve of New York's passing of 'gay marriage' without uttering a whimper; he sits on his Chair at a blatently 'homosexual Mass', stroking his chin and nodding in agreement and admiration at the scandal going on in front of his eyes (this is on video!); he invites the most pro-abort, anti-Church, marxist president in history to a seat of honor,a nd the podium, at a Catholic dinner (Notre Dame and Fr. Jenkins have NOTHING on him)! You don't think the photos from this travesty are gonna be all over Obama's media sites the next morning as a Doug-Kimec-redux?...only this time with tons more gravitas???
Yes, I do and will certainly pray for him, and for all bishops, but the sheep who have been led astray for 50 years, and are still dealing with scandal-mongering shepherds are mad as hell, and it is a righteous anger. Read Matt 24:48-51 and tell me this doesn't apply.
Michael Voris's latest video, "Obama and Peasant Catholics" hits it out of the park! There is an accountability for these men, and I'm sick and tired of seeing the Bride of Christ bloodied, muddied, and sullied by those charged with protecting and cherishing Her.
What Susan said. Ditto.
While I understand what Cardinal Dolan is saying, I do question what kind of "permission" this is going to give those Catholics who are basically confused by church teaching. If we have bishops who are saying that this government is taking away our religious freedom yet we give these people places of honor at our gatherings, how can this not be looked upon as being anything but hypocritical? One of the arguments that I constantly hear when it comes to the hierarchy of the church is that they say one thing but do another. In this instance I could not agree more. By inviting Obama to this dinner, I feel like they are giving mixed messages to the people. He does not support what Obama is doing to our religious freedom but we will give him a microphone to campaign from. How does that make any sense?
I know that the position as bishop is hard and I am sure you have to walk a fine line while doing it. I pray for our church leaders every day and ask God and the Blessed Mother to help them make the right decisions when it comes to the church and the people they are guiding to heaven. Keep praying because they could use all the help that they can get.
If he wants to convert Obama, he can do it in many other ways that are less open for manipulation. See how the Pope avoided having a photo op with Pelosi. He should have taken his cue there.
It is true that others are sinners too. But Obama is persecuting the Church by shutting down all her agencies or forcing her to betray the Lord. There is a difference between Judas and Ananias.
"for dining with those some considered sinners". Correction - repented former sinners. Have I missed something? What has changed? I don't trust Dolan AT ALL. Again and again he has NOT done the right thing as some other posters have stated. Even now he knows what impact this is having on people all across the nation but he continues with it. Terrible.
When I read comments like Tim's up top, I remember St. Catherine Of Siena and her letters to the pope, urging him back to Rome. Sometimes our shepherds need the faithful to remind them of the main goal. They are human, as we are, and can be blinded or led astray by the flatterers who surround them.
The Al Smith dinner was always intended to be break from partisanship and an attempt at civil discourse and good humor. I don't think Obama manages gracious very well, but I won't begrudge him another chance. The Cardinal has been strong in court and in his speeches. I'm inclined to let this go. Everyone needs to set aside the politics now and then. If it hurts the cause in any important way I don't see it. To me I see the dinner as an occasion for practicing spiritual mercy. The relentless overbearing interfering obsession with politics on the left is not something the good cardinal or I want to imitate.
"break from partisanship and an attempt at civil discourse and good humor."
ahhhh, yes....I remember now, Jesus putting aside 'partisanship' to sup with Herod on prime rib, and sharing a few yucks over a good bottle of Dom. In fact, didn't Christ's herald himself take part in one of Herod's banquets?...I believe he was the guest of honor at the one where Salome did the oustanding liturgical dance...in fact, aren't we celebrating that very feast day in two weeks?...or something like that.
Even Herod had civil discussions with John the Baptist. Think on how much worse his judgement might be because he was handed such a direct chance at repentance.
This is another chance for Obama personally to be schooled in grace, if he rejects it then so much the worse for him. I received graces as a sinner well before I recognized them and repented properly. Perhaps Obama will as well.
As for the Cardinal he is the high profile public face of Catholicism in New York, a very heavy responsibility. I trust his motives, even if I see the point that Obama is clearly opposed to religious freedom in general and Catholicism in particular. It serves little purpose in being petty, like Obama was with the Romney supporter in Iowa the other day.
I'm sure everything will turn out just fine. No more babies will be killed, and Holy Mother Church will now flourish from sea to shining sea. We can all go back to sleep now, and let the smart people do what they're gonna do anyway.
"Even Herod had civil discussions with John the Baptist."
Well, yes. But then Herod chopped his head off.
Dave,
Do you understand the difference between Herod and Levi; Nero and Casius (later Longinus); Pharaoh and Mary Magdalene?
What will it take for some people to recognize an enemy as an enemy? This obeisance to a false sense of tolerance and 'niceness' is truly maddening...it's like a mass diabolic disorientation of a spiritual death-wish for the Church.
I have no problem with the good Cardinal schooling Obama privately, not feting him publicly in a seat of honor at a Catholic dinner...and make no mistake, Obama knows what the Church teaches; he has willfully, boldly, and arrogantly rejected it. Plus he's doubled down on the discrimination against and persecution of It. Have you read this latest in the continuing nightmare?...
http://moonbattery.com/?p=15651
WAKE UP! We are in the battle of the ages, and you want to sit down and make-nice with the beasts, rather than speak the Truth boldly; in season and out of season.
Pray for the salvation of Obama's soul, but he knows the Truth and has chosen, compos mentis, through his free will, to utterly reject it. Not judging his soul...judging his actions; and if we can't fight against a clear and present, obvious and manifest agent of evil among us, rather than embracing and chortling with him, then nothing but despair, dependency, and corruption will survive in this country.
This is serious. We are in uniquely sinister times world-wide, and we will be called to account for which position we chose to assume on the field of battle.
Our bishops keep on thinking they can lie down with pigs and not get up dirty. You cannot make common cause with your enemy, hoping to persuade him on a few issues.
Yes this serious, it's spiritual war no doubt. Is there scandal from being pleasant to Obama? Clearly y'all are scandalized, fair enough. I'm scandalized by how easily a sitting Cardinal is trashed by the faithful. How we fight this war is as important as who we oppose. Christian weapons are humility, patience and especially charity. The Cardinal seems to have a grip on these weapons. Does it look like the high profile battle we expect/hope for? No, but as for the Cardinal I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because of his office. Unless the evidence is very strong he's abandoned his post/duty I'll back him. I don't think the evidence is that strong and I'm going to be cautious about critiquing any Cardinal in public without much more than this.
It goes further. They accepted $25 THOUSAND dollars from a pro-abortion group for a table as well. Oh, yeah, it is for 'the poor'. But if you are killed before you are born, I guess that will eliminate many of 'the poor'.
Sick.
http://prolifecorner.com/al-smith-dinner-willing-to-accept-pro-abortion-group/
Who was that pope who made the emperor wear sackcloth and ashes to show repentance?
Obama must repent first and show the fruits of repentance by nullifying the HHS mandate to rape our consciences and shut our apostolates.
After repentance, then yuck it up.
Cardinal needs clear ideas, solid faith, a pastoral sense and guts. I am disappointed.
"..................??!!!"
There's another "photo-op" for the Preezy of the United Steezy. Freely, freely, provided by a Prince of the Church, no less. It's not like the Cardinal was compelled to, like our military is.
Recall the trip to South Korea Obama made a few years back? Obama qipped to the troops, "You guys make a pretty good photo-op."
Huh... huh, huh, huh.
Dave said: "I'm scandalized by how easily a sitting Cardinal is trashed by the faithful...Unless the evidence is very strong he's abandoned his post/duty I'll back him. I don't think the evidence is that strong and I'm going to be cautious about critiquing any Cardinal in public without much more than this."
Uh, have ya read my first post?..."he runs out of town on the eve of New York's passing of 'gay marriage' without uttering a whimper; he sits on his Chair at a blatantly 'homosexual Mass', stroking his chin and nodding in agreement and admiration at the scandal going on in front of his eyes (this is on video!); he invites the most pro-abort, anti-Church, marxist president in history to a seat of honor, and the podium, at a Catholic dinner (Notre Dame and Fr. Jenkins have NOTHING on him)! You don't think the photos from this travesty are gonna be all over Obama's media sites the next morning as a Doug-Kimec-redux?...only this time with tons more gravitas???"
I had great hope for the Cardinal when he was first named, but this has become a pattern of weak, effete behavior. Yes he has a lawsuit in the works; and when John Roberts once again sells out his Faith and His God, what's left?...sue for peace with the devil? I 'loved' C. Dolan's quote a couple of weeks ago when detailing the options left to us...he actually said, "A third option, I suppose, is to capitulate and accept the strangling mandate…I don’t want to go there. We just finished a Fortnight for Freedom, and the saints we honored – Saint Thomas More, Saint John Fisher, Saint John the Baptist, Saints Peter and Paul – would not want us to go there, either."
"I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE"???? "The saints...would not want us to go there either."??? Holy smokes! How about, "we CANNOT, we WILL NOT, we WILL DIE before, we go there!"? Now THAT would be a Cardinal worth his red hat!...especially one who followed it up by keeping every Catholic organization under his jurisdiction open saying, "Mr. Obama, you will have to come in, beat us, drag us out, and throw us into jails across this country before we will bend to this evil law, and betray the legacy of the Saints and Christ Himself!..WE WILL NOT SUBMIT!"...and then for the Bishop/Cardinal to be the first to (peacefully) be beaten and dragged out. Now THAT would be a prelate I would follow through the fires of hell for Christ!...and THAT, no less, is to what they're called.
I don't enjoy criticizing a Cardinal, and quite frankly too bad you're scandalized by it. Bad behavior and selling out of the flock needs to be called out. Weakland should have been called out; Bernardin should have been called out; Mahoney was only called out by the great Mother Angelica, who had more testicular fortitude than the lot of the USCCB put together. Is Dolan as bad as these?...I honestly don't know, but his track record so far is looking pretty bleak. Oh, for the moral leave to clone Bishops Morlino, Bruskewitz, Card. Burke and their like, too few though they be.
Christ died a bloody, torturous death for His Church, that satan might have no part or entry into Her. Sure doesn't sound like what's going on in the bowels of NY these days.
St. Athanasius, pray for us.
How embarrassing. "I'd like to think that, given the choice, Jesus would have proudly ate with unrepentant sinners and told them 'Go, and sin more.'"
Reminds me of that phrase Jesus had for the first Pope when he was thinking as humans think, "Get behind me Satan."
Susan,
I think you are being unfair to Cardinal Dolan and your hysterical tone doesn't contribute much to this discussion.
"He runs out of town on the eve of New York's passing of 'gay marriage' without uttering a whimper."
He didn't exactly "run out of town." He had to leave to chair a meeting of the USCCB, of which he is the President. It was his job, his obligation, to chair that meeting. It was undoubtedly scheduled months in advance. It was an unhappy coincidence that this took place at the same time that the time the vote was taken - that can't be scheduled far in advance. And you know nothing about what Cardinal Dolan did, what personal phone calls he might have made to persuade people. He himself was said that he was assured by those in the know that the law wouldn't pass, so he probably felt it was safe to go.
"He sits on his Chair at a blatantly 'homosexual Mass', stroking his chin and nodding in agreement and admiration at the scandal going on in front of his eyes (this is on video!)."
I don't know if you know this or not, but once again it's a bishop's JOB to visit all the parishes in his diocese, attend services there, and find out what's going on and if they are doing the right thing and faithful to the Church. It's called a pastoral visitation. Corrections of parishes and priests, once again, go on behind the scenes. You are not likely to be privy to them, so stop making assumptions about what Cardinal Dolan is or isn't doing about this parish.
"I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE"???? "The saints...would not want us to go there either."??? Holy smokes! How about, "we CANNOT, we WILL NOT, we WILL DIE before, we go there!"? Now THAT would be a Cardinal worth his red hat!..."
This is Cardinal Dolan's understated style. When I read it, I understood perfectly that he meant the Church was not going to do that. I don't know why you couldn't. Maybe you can't understand anything that's not a hysterical 100-mile and hour rant typed IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS WITH EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!
"I don't enjoy criticizing a Cardinal."
You don't? Then why do you do it so often and at such length?
Lori,
The Cardinal himself admitted that he had been 'shocked' by the passage of gay marriage in NY...he believed ridiculous advice by, as you laughingly put it; “those in the know” (what the heck is a Cardinal-Archbishop supposed to be?), that there was nothing to worry about. Who on earth didn't see the juggernaut coming with ‘catholic’ Cuomo's massive push leading up to it? And you're absolutely right, a planned meeting of the USCCB is waaaay more important than staying to fight one of the biggest cultural and moral crises this country (and the Church) has ever faced, cause no one else could have conceivably run a meeting; no vice pres? no other bishop? It HAD to be Dolan running a meeting? Again, he said it was the wrong thing to do. And his ‘efforts’ against the same-sex marriage push were so anemic that Cuomo called them ‘reasonable’…lemme translate that for you, “he didn’t get in my way very much, or make too much trouble for me”.
As to the gay Mass...the GLBT 'ministries' (promoting an active homosexual lifestyle against Church teaching) were applauded, feted, and celebrated. After having (quote) “the Catholic Lesbian Group” and “our Gay Catholic Men’s Group” presented to him AT THE MASS, the Cardinal, nodded vigorously in approval, lifted his arm in salute, and got up in the pulpit back-slapping for 20 minutes. Not one peep on what the Church teaches as regards the active homosexual lifestyle. That would have been truly pastoral. Read St. Paul…he might surprise you with his stunning lack of ‘niceness’ when he knew gravely sinful acts were being tolerated. His first concern was the souls in mortal danger for the act itself, and those thrown into confusion by its tolerance; not the PR optics and being perceived as a nice guy. Do some of your own research before you go on a hysterical rant. Here, I'll get you started...
http://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2010/07/bishop-dolan-cheers-gay-groups-at.html
And I love your 'understated style' comment…New York now has gay ‘marriage’; St. Francis Xavier Parish (among others) is still ‘gay affirming’; and the most pro-abort, enemy-of-the-Church president EVER will have a reserved seat beside the Cardinal and a voice from the podium, at yet another major Catholic event, all at the Cardinal’s express invitation. Gotta love that understated style…Paul coulda learned a lot from him.
And as to your hyperbolic criticism of my writing; some things are worth emphasizing strongly because they are MUCH more important than other things, or they are too reason-defying to be believed. I understand fully that milquetoast and lukewarm are the temperatures in vogue today, but I prefer to have some fire in my veins about issues that put souls in danger. I know this is an unpopular position to take, but so be it, I’m not concerned with my own PR. Speak the Truth in season and out of season and speak it boldly that some souls might be saved and shepherds woken up.
“Then why do you (criticize C. Dolan) so often and at such length?”….that’s easy. Because I love him.
Susan,
I looked at that video. Wow, the part you talked about took up all of fifteen seconds. You didn't mention by the way, that the then-Archbishop was smiling and saluting at the statement that the Lesbian and Gay Ministries were helping gay people "RETURN TO THE SACRAMENTS." (I put that in all capitals so you'd understand it). You know,the sacraments -- as in Confession? The fruit of repentance for sin? Followed by Communion? Wouldn't a bishop naturally cheer for souls being converted?
You conveniently left out the part (included in Michael Voris' poisonous video) where the Archbishop told the gay groups in the parish not to March in the Gay Pride parade under the parish banner because that clearly DOES openly support the homosexual lifestyle as that is what the parade is all about. Its sounds as if he was doing his job there.
And perhaps he is content to have the priests at the parish take care of the state of the souls of the people there, converting hearts of those still mired in sinful behavior and offering the sacraments to those who need them. My heart bleeds, and yours should too, at the struggle many of these people have had, especially as they are denounced by so-called "good Catholics." Every sinner is welcome at Mass, including you and I. What are you pointing fingers at one group of sinners who are in need of help? Many are at different stages along the road and you can't expect them to all be perfect at once. You hear one or two of these and denounce the whole group.
By the way exactly how do you know that the people in these groups were engaged in a sinful lifestyle? Did you go to the parish and ask them? Since you apparently give all homosexuals a wide berth and are prone to denouncing them left and right and left without knowing them, I'd say not. Without concrete evidence, you are engaging in sinful detraction of your neighbors.
Once again, you do NOT know what is going on behind the scenes here, and are apparently not too well informed (or very forgetful) about what is going on publicly. You don't have a case here.
Actually, I think it would be beter to say "calumny and slander."
Lori,
You said all you needed to say here..."Michael Voris' poisonous video". You tipped your hand a little too tellingly with that.
St. Francis Xavier's is VERY public about being out and proud...it's the East Coast version of Most Holy Redeemer. DO SOME RESEARCH...it's VERY public. The emphasis is on total inclusiveness...No call to repenting of the act of sodomy (did you even notice the woman who on camera said, “I can be fully who I am there, in relationship with my partner” (!)
"By the way exactly how do you know that the people in these groups were engaged in a sinful lifestyle? "...gee, I dunno, maybe by THEIR OWN WORDS?!?! Again, do some research.
“Since you apparently give all homosexuals a wide berth and are prone to denouncing them left and right and left without knowing them, I'd say not. Without concrete evidence, you are engaging in sinful detraction of your neighbors.”
Wow…talk about calumny and slander. There’s plenty of concrete evidence for the FACTS that I’ve stated, they just are apparently inconvenient facts for you. Every Catholic who carries the most difficult cross of same-sex attraction should most assuredly come to Mass…they are our brothers and sisters, and they are in great need of the strength and grace offered at the Holy Sacrifice to live a lifestyle in accord with Church teaching, we all are. And if they are living a chaste (celibate) life, and are in a state of grace (having confessed all known mortal sins) they should most assuredly receive the Eucharist. If they are actively engaging in homosexual acts they should not approach for Communion, just as I shouldn’t if I’m in an adulterous relationship. This is Catholicism 101. At St. Francis X, this isn’t the teaching…DO SOME RESEARCH LORI. Our Lord’s Body is used to make a political statement, and advance a Church-defying political cause. It you want to call me names for pointing it out, have at it.
And as to the whole banner issue, are you aware that the group did march in the parade? They used a blank banner the first year, with everyone knowing who they were and what they were saying. In fact they stated it the following year on the banner they carried, “Saint Francis Xavier, come to the table”.
I’m not gonna keep playing the little games here, I don’t have time for it. The truth is obvious for anyone who wants to see it. There is a deep negligence of true pastoral care for souls going on in various parts of the episcopacy, and the Church in America is in grave danger as a result. I had great hope that with Cardinal Dolan heading things here we would see a return to orthodoxy and solid judgment. Sadly, I (and many others) have been disappointed on too many crucial fronts. Coming around full circle to the topic of this post, the Al Smith dinner is just the latest.
St. Athanasius (he was a warrior Lori, who stood up against the zeitgeist of the world when 85% of the episcopacy had gone Arian), “Contra Mundum”, pray for us.
Now, I’ve got housework to do…take the last word.
I'm sorry, but those of you that are claiming that Jesus only ate with unrepentant sinners are wrong. Not only did he dine with sinners that had not turned their back on sin, unlike any of us He knew exactly what everyone's heart was, He knew not only what they had done but what they were going to do. And despite that knowledge, he named Judas one of the 12, dined with Him and trusted Him as one of His closest friends and disciples. But He knew Judas was going to deliver Him to death.
And just like Joseph being betrayed by His brothers, Jesus' betrayal by his brother was used for immeasurable good.
Jesus invited someone He knew was going to betray Him to dine with Him every day. He did it because He trusted Our Father in Heaven had a plan and would see it through to completion. Cardinal Dolan seems to be trusting God's ability to make His plan work.
Remember what Jesus told us: He guaranteed that His Church would not fail.
Cardinal Dolan is blessed with gifts of the Holy Spirit that none of us laity are gifted with. He has a better chance of discerning God's will for His Church than any of us. He may fail to properly discern, he may make mistakes. But Judas turned Jesus over to be crucified and not even the Apostles that had seen and performed miracles, walking alongside Jesus could foresee the amazing fruit that was going to flow from that scandal, that betrayal, that gravest of all sins.
You don't have to trust Cardinal Dolan. But you don't have to worry that Cardinal Dolan is going to destroy the Church. You just have to put your trust in God. He either keeps His promises and His Church will prevail, or He's not God.
Susan,
"No call to repenting of the act of sodomy." You know this how? Have you been in the church listening to all the sermons given? Are you privy to all the private conversations the priests hold with the people there?
Yes, ONE person, in a ten-second sound bite mentioned her partner, but we don't really have much context. Some people in the groups may live chastely, or at least understand the need to fight sin, but others may not be there yet. It doesn't speak for all the gay people of the parish, much less what their pastors are doing for them.
And you have not pointed to anything that Cardinal Dolan has done wrong. He has held up Church teaching even if some people disobeyed him.
I think it's very telling that you said what you did about Michael Voris. His own diocese said he shouldn't put Catholic in the name of his broadcasting media any longer. THAT's very telling. He says things himself that are completely at odds with complete teaching. Like that rabbinic Judaism is a "man-made religion" that has nothing to do with the Judaism of the OT and NT. That is not the teaching of the Church. That is very telling. He is recently partnering with a known anti-Semite. Anti-semitism is a sin too, you know. That's why I am wary of his videos and you should bee too. And he is poisonous because he does little but tear down his fellow Catholics, and engages in ginned-up hysteria to energize his "base." Give me Cardinal Dolan any day.
P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C
Lemme take a wild stab here Lori...you have an Obama bumper sticker on your car?
...a "smart" car, right???
...with a big, "I heart the nuns on the bus!" sign in the back window?
"Lemme take a wild stab here Lori...you have an Obama bumper sticker on your car?"
No, Susan I do not. Nor do I love the "nuns on the bus" who are disobedient to Rome. I did not vote for Obama, strange as that might seem to you. Your problem is that you can only see things in black and white, one extreme or another. People are there are both sides waiting to steal your soul because they tell you that you are right and to hate everyone on "the other side." I won't go there and I advise you not to get out of there.
Oops, I mean "I advise you to get out of there."
...a front doormat that says, "Nuclear-Free Zone!"???
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