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Creative Minority Reader

One Man's Poison Is Another Man's...

Let's play 'find the poison' shall we?

On this side we have a person responsible for the Church and the spiritual care of billions of souls using broad and sweeping but suitably vague language to impugn and denigrate many of those well-meaning Catholics who adhere as best they can to the doctrine and Tradition handed down to them.

On the other side we have one of the unfairly impugned making light of it by putting the insult on a mug.



Guess which one of these parties the great blogger who uses his power for nothing but unity, peace, and love thinks is guilty of passive-aggressive BS and of spreading poison?

*subhead*Speaking of BS*subhead*

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46 comments:

JoAnna Wahlund said...

"...well-meaning Catholics who adhere as best they can to the doctrine and Tradition handed down to them."

If this is the audience to whom you believe Pope Francis was speaking, and you do not understand Pope Francis at all. Pope Francis was speaking of the modern-day Pharisees who place too much emphasis on rules and not enough on compassion, forgiveness, and mercy. (Both have their proper measure.)

If Pope Francis' admonitions are hitting too close to home, perhaps you should reflect on that instead of mocking the Holy Father.

Peter Q said...

This post makes me so sad. Creative Minority Report was once my favourite blog. It was faithful, but funny; conservative but not doctrinaire. Now it seems to have descended into a near constant stream of complaint, fear and ridicule of Pope Francis by Patrick. What I once felt to be a welcome and warm take on the Catholic faith, seems more and more to come across as a frightened embattled fringe. I love you guys. I really do. But I am so tired ... I am beginning to feel I have to look elsewhere for my daily dose the Joy of the Gospel.

Rebecca Duncan said...

"and you do not understand Pope Francis at all." Gee, I'm hearing that A LOT these days.
What Pope Francis meant to say was....insert stupid thing here.

The Bones said...

Ha ha. Great mug!

Jim said...

Oh yes. Have mercy on those who ignore 'rules' like church teaching on abortion, contraception, sodomy and who can be ordained, but utterly crush holy, devout, orthodox orders of Franciscan friars who only want to celebrate mass in accordance with church rules. BTW the blogger with the mug has been very supportive of the pope.

Mary De Voe said...

Jim, you forgot irreverence in church before the Blessed Sacrament. Perhaps, If Pope Francis' attack can be read as an attack on those who are struggling with staying faithful, it may be looked on as a blessing, But where do we go from here? There is only laughter...with tears in our eyes.

Steve Dalton said...

Shea hates anything and anybody that's a "reactionary". Therefor he hates traditional Catholics who actually think, believe, and practice the faith as it has been handed down. Oh, he doesn't mind the trads, as long as they are ghettoized, but he goes into a panic if they start influencing people outside their communities. Yeah, Marky doesn't want to be in a church were he might have to sit with folks who think a practicing sodomite can't be a saint, Michael Voris would be respected, and the six day creation story would be accepted as factual history, instead of being considered a theory. Yep, he would be very uncomfortable in a church that actually believed in what the church has always taught.

Bill Meyer said...

"Shea hates..." and that is persistently sinful. That blogger who produced the mug has been supportive of Pope Francis, through all manner of ill-considered sound-bites upon which the media have pounced to prove that Francis is changing or cancelling Church doctrine.

The Church teachings are secure. What Francis has said is simply comment. It alters no doctrine, and is most certainly not infallible. What he has given us so far is simply his perspective, and suggestions for reflection.

natewinchester said...

Mark would be uncomfortable sitting in any church filled with more than himself and the pope.

Rebecca Duncan said...

Mark Shea needs to apologize AGAIN.

Jim said...

JoAnna, Please explain to us modern-day Pharisees what "Self-Absorbed Promethean Neopelagian" means. No fair consulting Shea.

Patrick Archbold said...

No matter how you look at it "Self-Absorbed Promethean Neopelagian" is not a constructive criticism. It is a pejorative pure and simple.

JoAnna Wahlund said...

Jim: see the SSPX, and other Catholics who believe they are holy by virtue of following all the rules as they believe them to be.

And, yes, Jim, we are supposed to have mercy on sinners, even those who promote abortion and other sins. Mercy =/= condoning sin, however. Perhaps you should read more about what mercy is and how it is employed.

Rebecca, Pope Francis' words and meaning were, I thought, perfectly clear given their context as well as his other statements. Perhaps if you spent more time reading the words of the Holy Father (including those of BXVI and JPII) you'd understand him better.

Jesus' words often need to be explained as well (hence why priests do homilies). Do you believe it's okay not to follow Jesus' words (and/or slander Him) if you don't understand them?

Yes, Patrick, it is a pejorative. It's very telling that you think it's directed at you. If it is, then you should ask yourself, "Is this criticism justified?"

JB said...


Recent converts like Mark tend to be unbearable at times. he is the worst of the bunch however.

Patrick Archbold said...

Joanna
How could you possibly know what goes on in the hearts and minds of the SSPX. I am no fan of many of their actions, but like you I have no idea that as a group they believe they are justified by following the rules. Frankly, I highly doubt it since many are actively engaged in helping others. You are condescending and judgmental toward those who are different from you.

Splinter, see plank.

Stephen said...

JB wrote:

"Recent converts like Mark tend to be unbearable at times"

Mark Shea entered the Catholic Church in 1987 - so this particular "recent convert" has been Catholic for a quarter of a century. This is to be contrasted with a non-recent convert like Father Z, who entered the Catholic Church 30 years ago. Those extra 5 years sure do make a difference!

P.S. I've always distrusted that "recent convert" Paul the Apostle. The nerve of him - thinking he had any rate to write a bunch of letter hectoring other Christians when he himself had been Christian for less than 25 years!

JoAnna Wahlund said...

Patrick - I judge them by their actions and their writings. I do not judge the state of their souls, only that (objectively) they are in a precarious position by rejecting legitimate Church authority.

Patrick Archbold said...

Joanna -- You most certainly did judge them.

"see the SSPX, and other Catholics who believe they are holy by virtue of following all the rules as they believe them to be. "

You explicitly write what they believe about their own holiness. How could you know that? You cannot unless you sit in the judgement seat or think that you do.

JoAnna Wahlund said...

I know that because it is the claim THEY make, Patrick - and their actions attest to it as well.

Patrick Archbold said...

Say what you want about Mark's writing style, but he has been a Catholic for longer than most of the folks who comment at his site.

freddy said...

First, @ Patrick re: 11:49am, to say that JoAnna claims to know what goes on in the hearts and minds of the SSPX is unfair. These are people who have left the Church, you know, the ordinary means of salvation, over what they see as disdain for tradition. It is neither condescending nor judgmental to say that they are wrong and are, in fact in danger of losing their salvation by saying that they can do without the Church. It doesn't matter how nice they are or how hurt they are by modernism, they are endangering their souls. This is not judgment, it is warning.

Second, did you guys have *nothing* better to do than play, "Let's you and him fight?"

Jim said...

Joanna, you should go back and read my post. You missed the point. I think mercy is a good thing.

freddy said...

"Say what you want about Mark's writing style, but he has been a Catholic for longer than most of the folks who comment at his site."

And you know this how? And you think JoAnna's being judgmental?

Patrick Archbold said...

Freddy, stop being an idiot.

freddy said...

No.

JoAnna Wahlund said...

freddy - as Patrick said, Mark Shea has been Catholic since 1987. http://www.mark-shea.com/about.html

Can you provide evidence to the contrary?

JB said...

Just needling him.

Pope Mark Shea I has given me many a good laugh over the years, from advocating polygenism (contrary to the Catholic faith) to lambasting "trads" at every opportunity. The man has no degree in Catholic theology of which I am aware, but strides across the Catholic world like a Colossus of Rhodes of sorts, telling us all how to think and believe. It's entertaining to say the least.

He and Francis definitely do have one thing in common I will say: name calling.

freddy said...

Oh, boy. I'm just asking how Patrick knows how long "most of the folks who comment at his site" have been Catholic. For example, I comment on Mark's site occasionally, and I've been Catholic for 47 years. I read Pat's comment as a knee-jerk slam against people who read Mark's blog. Perhaps I am mistaken.

On a lighter note, being called an "idiot" on a site my older children read is a new one for me.

Patrick Archbold said...

Freddy
You are way off base. My comment about Mark was to signify that his conversion is neither recent or relevant. How you could that as a slam is beyond me, as are your comments today.

Netmilsmom said...

The comments over there are eye opening!
Shea can be nasty can't he?

freddy said...

Patrick,
I'm sorry that you found my comments unclear. Perhaps you will agree that saying that "person x" has been Catholic longer than "group y" can be taken more than one way and given the tenor of your comments to JoAnna (with whom I agree) I might be forgiven for misreading you.

JoAnna,
I'm sorry for "stepping on your toes" so to speak in agreeing with you. I never meant to derail the conversation from the excellent points you made. I've been a regular reader for as long as this blog has been around, but I'm obviously not very good at this comment stuff.

Charles said...

Things are going to be a big awkward at the NCRegister blogger Christmas party this year. :)

Lynda said...

The SSPX have not left the Church. The Holy See has made that clear. The society has not been regularised canonically. The SSPX priests are Carholic priests.

Lynda said...

He seems to wear his nastiness as a badge of honour.

Lynda said...

Thank you, Mr Archbold for not being intimidated into not pointing out injustice and error. Let us not lose our reason and objectivity and commitment to the Deposit of Faith because we may be persecuted or become unpopular for so doing. We need more people to speak the truth without fear or favour. I have never witnessed so much fear and confusion against Catholics with a public platform. And many are criticising the messengers for fear they will be persecuted like the FFI. "They came for the Jews but I was not a Jew so I did nothing ..."

JoAnna Wahlund said...

Not quite. "The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society (of St Pius X) does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church" (Pope Benedict XVI, Letter of 10 March 2009 to the Bishops of the Catholic Church concerning the remission of the excommunication of the four bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre).

Slick said...

Bill Meyer, All the erroneous and confusing things the pope has been saying changes no doctrines, but it can still do considerable damage to souls and the Church. He is dividing, confusing, alienating and misleading many, while adding fuel to progressives and dissenters.

David Madeley said...

I don't know if anyone's noticed, but the mug is left-handed. If I want to show off my promethean neo-pelagian tendencies, I have to hold my mug in a dangerous fashion. Screw you, Fr Z!

freddy said...

Patrick,

I've been a loyal reader since you and Matt started this blog. What a delight! Brothers, family men, Catholics; I've enjoyed your writing so much, both here and at the Register. When your com-boxes became rather a "dangerous neighborhood" I thought it due more to your success -- that you had less time to "police" your com-boxes, than policy. I was obviously mistaken.

Now, I'm no shrinking violet. I'm the mother to teen and young adult men, and a cancer survivor, but I do abhor incivility. What you allow here is less "robust conversation" and more "witch-with-a-b session." Perhaps you enjoy insult and put-down among your own family and friends. I find it uncharitable and ungentlemanly.

And though I'm sure you could care less, you've lost a reader; though not someone who will remember you and yours in her prayers. God bless you.

StevenD-Jasper said...

Joanna has been an apologist for the smear merchant Shea for quite a long time now..

JoAnna Wahlund said...

And yet, in Mark Shea's comboxes I'm defending Fr. Z. I'm so fickle!

StevenD-Jasper said...

"Perhaps you should read more about what mercy is and how it is employed."

...this comment coming from a Mark Shea groupie. The irony

JoAnna Wahlund said...

If by "groupie" you mean "friend," then guilty as charged. What is the irony? Can you explain?

Dymphna said...

Mark Shea is always starting something. Has anybody noticed how many feuds he has going? And have you noticed how fast he turns on people particularly priests?

mickey said...

Well, it think it was ver brave of Mr Shea to call Father Z on this stuff. Z's stuff is increasingly sharp, divisive , and just plain mean. Perhaps, please God, Pope Francis is preparing to reign him in. It is time someone removed the sword from his hand. It is just getting to be too much. I now delete almost anything with a z in it....

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