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Cardinal Dolan Says "Bravo" to Gay Football Player

via NBCNewYork

Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York praised University of Missouri football star Michael Sam for coming out as gay, saying he would not judge the athlete for his sexual orientation.


"Good for him," Dolan said in an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" airing Sunday.

"I would have no sense of judgment on him," Dolan continued. "God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'"

*subhead*Says Good for him*subhead*

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60 comments:

Patrick Archbold said...

Uh...so if chastity is a virtue, and ..um... someone isn't, well, chaste...we shouldn't judge his conduct if he defines himself by it? If his self-definition is "I am unchaste" how is coming out as "gay" different than coming out as, I dunno', "adulterer"? Would his eminence say "good for you"?

Patrick Archbold said...

Can I get my tubal-ligation yet?

Patrick Archbold said...

The flock is getting confusing messages...Lord have mercy.

Patrick Archbold said...

One infers that the Cardinal loves yukking it up with secular power at the Al Smith Dinner more than he loves the soul of Michael Sam.

Patrick Archbold said...

He just unwittingly gave an added implicit green light to millions of heterosexual youth in America about doing non married sex. He didn't mean to because he really is a form of airhead. Is there an upside...a silver lining? Well he'll bring many hyper yuk yuk jesters back to the fold if anyone on earth can do so. That's about it.

Patrick Archbold said...

What in hell?

Patrick Archbold said...

Mark Shea would say you people are reactionaries, holier than thou...

Patrick Archbold said...

What a joke this whole conversation is. The NFL is a cesspool of rampant heterosexual perversity with illegitimate children strewn all across the country and we're talking about Michael Sam?

Patrick Archbold said...

John Sobieski, same thing occurred to me except I thought of adults who were attracted to children. Who am I to judge?

Patrick Archbold said...

When Queen Isabella of Spain was plagued by a particularly idiotic Cardinal in her realm, and when entreaties to Rome did no good, she began having public Masses said for this Cardinal's removal from Church life. After a time her public prayers were apparently answered and the Cardinal died. Immediately upon hearing of his death the Queen had a Ted Deum sung.


This anecdote can be found in William Walsh's meticulously researched biography, "Isabella of Spain", a book I would highly recommend any Catholic to read. I dare say there is no one in high position today who would do the same vis-a-vis Cardinal Dolan, but that wouldn't stop a mere layman like myself from having a few Masses said for the same purpose - to rid the Church of the likes of Timothy Dolan.


Since the Cardinal has just confirmed a poor sinner in his unnatural vice and mortal sin his removal from Church life would seem to be mandatory.

Patrick Archbold said...

Catholic Democrat, you have a point.

Patrick Archbold said...

I thought the comment meant that he's not judging the orientation but judging any acts based on it just as he'd judge an unmarried man and woman.

Patrick Archbold said...

Why aren't both points worth bringing to light? It doesn't have to be either/or. The culture has been inundated with unchastity among heterosexuals for a long time. Yes, that definitely needs to be addressed. But we should not let those pushing for the acceptance of homosexual lifestyles have a pass because there are other fish to fry, so to speak. Addressing the morality of practicing homosexuality needs to happen, especially from our priests and bishops.

Patrick Archbold said...

This blog is more like 'The Vortex' every day.

Patrick Archbold said...

No, the media was talking about it and in doing so with Cardinal Dolan he came across as condoning homosexuality. Now I am sure that wasn't his intent, but others certainly won't make that distinction. It will all be part of the "Who am I to judge" bandwagon headed down a highway. You judge the destination.


And your comments about the NFL in general are completely true.

Patrick Archbold said...

I don't watch the Vortex, Harry. Tell me about it since you apparently know so much.

Patrick Archbold said...

So, did the Bishop answer this letter?

Patrick Archbold said...

For one thing, I think homosexual sodomy is practiced by like 3 percent of the population so the problem just utterly pales in comparison to things like no fault divorce and pornography(which literally wouldn't exist without a much more pervasive heterosexual sodomy). Also, we come off as hypocritical and are subject to barbs like, "I'm sorry my gay marriage is damaging to the sanctity of your 3rd marriage".


I wish the Cardinal would have said something like, "According to the Catechism, homosexuals are not to be subject to unjust discrimination so I am happy that he will be able to pursue his career in the NFL. Nevertheless, I don't condone his lifestyle or the lifestyles of his future teammates which overwhelmingly fall short of Catholic teaching in the area of sexual morality."

Patrick Archbold said...

Catholic Democrat, if I had any "in" to this Cardinal, I would type up your words and pin them to his hat. Brilliant!
But
please be patient with the poor souls looking at this and being
absolutely horrified by the Cardinals words. I have a convert husband
who is wavering and two teenage girls with multiple gay friends. We are
taken aback when we see words like the Cardinals on tv, when what we
really want are words like yours.

Patrick Archbold said...

Dolan should have said he has no comment on the topic. Is Michael Sam even Catholic? If not, this is like me announcing that I like bacon and having some rabbi announce on TV that he doesn't judge my dietary choices. Um, thanks, rabbi,

Patrick Archbold said...

test

Patrick Archbold said...

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could say: “Return the child safe
and sound and we will not put you to death.”?

Patrick Archbold said...

Politicians take our tax money they better represent us, or be sued for taxation without representation.

Patrick Archbold said...

"Good for him" and "Bravo" is judging people. It is making judgement that someone is good or has done something good.
.
Judging a temptation (of same sex attraction) is also saying that the temptation is good.
.
The Bible is very clear that those who commit homosexual acts (without repentance) are going to Hell. 1 Rom:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10.
.
And the "Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edtition" is very clear that homosexuality is "disordered" and homosexual acts are of "grave depravity". CCC: # 2357; 2358, 2359, & 2396.
.
Further we each are guilty of aiding and abeting in the sins of others when - -
"CCC: 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
- by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
- by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
- by protecting evil-doers."
.
It seems the Cardinal needs to go back and re-read the Bible and the CCC. It has forgotten too much.

Patrick Archbold said...

The next time someone gets cancer, keep him or her away from Cardinal Dolan. He just might say: "Good for him" or "Bravo.

Patrick Archbold said...

We must never tolerate sin.
We must never condon sin.

Patrick Archbold said...

"So I would say, 'Bravo."

And to Cardinal Dolan I would say.... Heretic!

Patrick Archbold said...

A very, very important observation. Thank you.

Patrick Archbold said...

I agree with the Cardinal........I have a friend who makes a lot of money defrauding the poor by owning a factory in India that pays slave labor wages.

Come on....can't we all not judge my friend and say, "good for him" "God luv ya" and "bravo"


After all we should have "no sense of judgment" on my slave labor profiting friend either.

Patrick Archbold said...

"...homosexual sodomy is practiced by like 3 percent of the population so
the problem just utterly pales in comparison to things like no fault
divorce and pornography..."

So what?

Patrick Archbold said...

Cardinal 'D' loves yucking it up. But lets not overlook what the ENTIRE secular press and leftist government and psuedo Catholics probably did NOT notice. the word he used....CHASTITY. So if a person isnt living a chaste life (Which based on the definition of the word we must ALL do) then we should speak out as needed for the persons correction. Otherwise, we have let this poor soul think he can live his life in a way that guarantees hell forever. Not good Card...


We shouldnt judge. Because I noticed noone gets worked up over the fact that the rest of the football team may be engaging in non-marital sex. As long as we are equally angered. It makes sense. Otherwise, we are just picking on a group while ignoring the horrendous sins and disobedience to God that let this homosexual plague upon us.

Patrick Archbold said...

Good point. The gay marriage thing isnt going to wreak punishment...it IS the punishment. For not maintaining our virtue.

Patrick Archbold said...

Ok so surprise, the cleric who never met a microphone he didn't llke. We did a story on Dolan a long time back when all were waiting with palms to glorify him:
"How do we solve a problem like Maria? (oops!) Dolan?" http://www.alwayscatholic.com/?p=6093 Think I need to wear my cheesehead to Mass, whaddya think?

Patrick Archbold said...

Thanks to Pope Francis, Cardinal Dolan (and others to come, no doubt) have basically been given permission to spew such disgraceful, scandalous views. Lord help us.

Patrick Archbold said...

Stu: Why do you think that Cardinal Dolan's comments were NOT intended to condone homosexuality? In what other way can it be interpreted? Seemed crystal clear to me.

Patrick Archbold said...

We have gone from the rock solid certainty of the pontificates of John Paul II and Benedict to this headline in the Daily Mail:

Pope to stop condemning same-sex civil partnerships
hints leading cardinal in move which could be step towards Catholic gay
marriage

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577366/Pope-Francis-stop-condemning-sex-civil-partnerships-hints-leading-cardinal-step-Catholic-gay-marriage.html

Patrick Archbold said...

Should a prince of the Church really be saying "Bravo" to sinful behaviors?
Truly scandalous, once again Dolan....

Patrick Archbold said...

Stu, we could all rightfully believe that nobody is in Hell. So I guess I don't understand your statement?

Patrick Archbold said...

No he did not confirm a poor sinner. He taught what the Church teaches -that the condition of homosexuality is not a sin, and that Sam should be chaste.

Patrick Archbold said...

No, you need to go back and review 2358. Sam never admitted to any homosexual acts, only to orientation. Dolan made clear that he is called to chastity.

Patrick Archbold said...

Read the whole quote. .He also said, in so many words, that Sam is called to chastity.

Patrick Archbold said...

You are reading into Dolan's public statement something that was not said.
Same Sex Attraction (SSA) is not a sin, but a temptation.
If someone says they have a serious temptation, the correct response is not "Good for him" or "Bravo".

Patrick Archbold said...

Is that green liturgical or is he drunk from an early St Pattie's day celebration?

Patrick Archbold said...

The man really did not confess any sin, only his orientation. Homosexual orientation is an act of God. Homosexual behavior is an act of man's free will. The militant gay agenda is seeking normalization of sodomy as sexual behavior. Sodomy is assault and battery of the partner and denial of the partner's immortal soul.
Confessing that God made one homosexual is an admission of the existence of the Supreme Sovereign Being.

Patrick Archbold said...

Yea this one really made my jaw drop as I watched it. Bravo?? Good for him?? Can you imagine Cardinal O'Connor saying something like this? I would assume, had he to do it over again, he would have chosen different language?

But it's not so much the almost express approval of homosexuality that staggered me, but Dolan falling for the "gay" propaganda that reduces each person's identity, their very value almost, to what their sexual desires are. This guy "is" "gay" and that's that. Bravo!

Nice comic relief was David Gregory constantly asking him how the Church can remain "relevant" in the world, as if it were an arm of the Democratic party. He seems about 2 feet deep mentally.

Patrick Archbold said...

Oh, how much I wish I can see Harry Seldon's comment (it was deleted). He is always the resident combox progressive on Creative Minority. :(

Patrick Archbold said...

Let's not forget heterosexual sodomy, which is practiced probably by a large majority -- probably leading them to see nothing intrinsically wrong with the homosexual variety.

Patrick Archbold said...

There are 2 areas of concern - a public statement by a high ranking member of the clergy - 1) "Good for him", and "Bravo" when someone states they have a serious temptation.
- 2) is contained in John 7:24 when Jesus said "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgement". - Good judgement calls for public statements by the Clergy to be clear and not confuse. Good judgement mean to know right from wrong. Good judgement means to accurately teach the truth when given the opportunity.
Good judgement is not to be approving, silly, or flippant.

Patrick Archbold said...

Exactly. That is where he faltered. You could almost see the lies of the World overcoming his judgment and sensibilities. He's human and I'm sure he would take that comment back if he could.

Patrick Archbold said...

Unfortunately, being flippant or silly is something Cardinal Dolan does often.
Dolan does appear to have a judgement problem; two public issues that come to mind is when he praised schismatic and heretic - Joe Biden;
and the scandal of the Al Smith dinner with Obama - pictures of Obama and Dolan were used to re-elect Obama.

Patrick Archbold said...

Because as a Prince of the Church, I will given him the benefit of the doubt until I see something more concrete than a TV interview. Much more likely is that he simply didn't answer the question well.

Patrick Archbold said...

Others seem not to be perplexed.

Patrick Archbold said...

Looks like there might be an opening. Perhaps your lucky day.

Patrick Archbold said...

Sarcasm and the internet... I see why now it cannot generally work.
I was referring to the common newchurch teaching that hell may exist, but nobody is there.

Patrick Archbold said...

The newchurch catechism, that is.
By the way, how can you be Catholic and democrat??? Abortion, sodomite marriage, obamacare.

Patrick Archbold said...

This from a man who causes more and more scandal every week... thats okay. Hes probably a catholic in good standing, like the governor of new York

Patrick Archbold said...

Noted and will apply to future posts.

Patrick Archbold said...

Michael Vick wants his "bravo" for arranging dog fights. And Pete Rose is due one, too.

Patrick Archbold said...

When someone says, as Sam did in his announcement, that "I came to tell the world I'm an openly proud gay man," it is reasonable to infer that he is sexually active. Certainly that is what those words are commonly understood to mean.

Patrick Archbold said...

How do you explain the "Good for him" and the "Bravo"? What is so good about what Michael Sam did, from the vantage point of Church teaching?

As to your remark that "[Dolan] taught what the Church teaches -that the condition of homosexuality is not a sin, and that Sam should be chaste": would that Cardinal Dolan had expressed it as clearly and forthrightly as your summary does.

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