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Kasper: Pope Thinks 50% of Marriages Not Valid

For the record. In an interview with Cardinal Kasper in Commonweal.

CWL: In your address to the consistory, you ask whether we can, “in the present situation, presuppose without further ado that the engaged couple shares the belief in the mystery that is signified by the sacrament and that they really understand and affirm the canonical conditions for the validity of the marriage.” You ask whether the presumption of validity from which canon law proceeds is often “a legal fiction.” But can the church afford not to make this presumption? How could the church continue to marry couples in good faith if it assumed that many of them were not really capable of entering into sacramental marriage because they were, as you put it somewhere else in your speech, “baptized pagans”?

Kasper: That’s a real problem. I’ve spoken to the pope himself about this, and he said he believes that 50 percent of marriages are not valid. Marriage is a sacrament. A sacrament presupposes faith. And if the couple only want a bourgeois ceremony in a church because it’s more beautiful, more romantic, than a civil ceremony, you have to ask whether there was faith, and whether they really accepted all the conditions of a valid sacramental marriage—that is, unity, exclusivity, and also indissolubility. The couples, when they get married, they want it because it’s stable. But many think, “Well, if we fail, we have the right.” And then already the principle is denied. Many canon lawyers tell me that today in our pluralistic situation we cannot presuppose that couples really assent to what the church requires. Often it is also ignorance. Therefore you have to emphasize and to strengthen prematrimonial catechesis. It’s often done in a very bureaucratic way. No, we have to provide catechesis. I know some parishes in Rome where couples have to attend catechesis, and the pastor himself does it. We must do much more in prematrimonial catechesis and use pastoral work and so on because we cannot presuppose that everybody who is a formal Christian also has the faith. It wouldn’t be realistic.


*subhead*For the record*subhead*

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18 comments:

Patrick Archbold said...

So if the marriages are not valid at all because people "just wanted the pretty ceremony," then that means, ultimately, that the Priest should not have married them in the first place. And the solution is to let that same Priest now decide whether or not the marriage should be annulled?


Permit me to ask, once we make a mess, who exactly is going to clean it up? Yeesh. Talk about only stocking up on Rose colored glasses.

Patrick Archbold said...

I assume that the Pope will start a huge campaign to stop the abuse of the Sacraments and begin to withhold them from the ignorant "faithful". Very few marriages, and very little Communion at Mass. Of course the non-existent use of the Confessional will continue fine as is. Baptisms also will continue especially if you are against the Church and her teachings.

Patrick Archbold said...

BTW, since they aren't sacramental marriages anyway, this could open the door to all kinds of new "marriages" that aren't "REAL" marriages. If you know what I mean..... Full blown Church "weddings" but without any concern about Church teachings since everyone "knows" that they aren't valid.

Patrick Archbold said...

What about ordinations? What about those priests who ''just wanted the pretty ceremony'' and fancy dress, etc. I can see them saying 50% of their ordinations are not valid. We can't expect nominal Christians to know what the priesthood entails, what they ought to preach, how to confess. Note the irony.

Patrick Archbold said...

It may be that 50% of purported marriages (including not only marriages in a Catholic Church but all purported marriages whatsoever) are not valid. If the claim is that 50% of those marrying in the Catholic Church are not marrying validly, then I would doubt that more. Usually there is an effort of catechesis and explaining indissolubility of marriage, openness to having children, and the other criteria of validity. The priest does have an obligation to make sure as best he can at the time of the marriage that the criteria for the couple to validly enter into marriage are present. Priests need to be VERY WELL FORMED AND EDUCATED for this task.

Patrick Archbold said...

In cases like those which Kasper mentions, then there are obvious grounds for nullity and the tribunals of the Church exist to examine and judge on such matters.


He, however, is engaged in a campaign to let those who have abandoned VALID marriages and now live in unrepentant adulterous relationships to be admitted to the sacraments. His heresies need to be called out for what they are.

Patrick Archbold said...

If I recall my catechesis, a Priest does not marry a husband and wife, they give the Sacrament to each other. The Priest is the Church Official who canonically validates the ceremony. So, the Cardinal,. Or His Holiness, is saying marriages may be licit, but not valid. One of the conditions of the Sacrament is that “Can. 1066 Before a marriage is celebrated, it must be evident that nothing stands in the way of its valid and licit celebration.” To quote the Cardinal ““Well, if we fail, we have the right.” And then already the principle is denied.” means that in one of the spouses’ mind or heart there is already an impediment to Can. 1056: “The essential properties of marriage are unity and indissolubility…”

Patrick Archbold said...

I assume that the Pope will start a huge campaign to stop the abuse of the Sacraments and begin to withhold them from the ignorant "faithful". Very few marriages, and very little Communion at Mass. Of course the non-existent use of the Confessional will continue fine as is. Baptisms also will continue especially if you are against the Church and her teachings.


BTW, since it's been judged that most marriages aren’t valid and are null, this revelation could open the door to all sorts of new “non-marriages" in the Church since we all “know” they aren’t "REAL" marriages anyway. Who are WE to judge what is a real marriage or not anyway?

Patrick Archbold said...

There's a difference. The ministers of marriage are the man and the woman. The validity rests on that. In Holy Orders, the validity rests on the Apostolic Succession of the bishop and the proper form (prayer of ordination) and matter (laying on of hands) in the ordination ceremony.

As it is, I remember Fr. Benedict Groeschel saying the same thing many years ago about the validity of marriages. And he was not one to be heretical.

Dave P.

Patrick Archbold said...

I wouldn't trust anything this man says. He's notorious for pushing heresy and liberalism. Besides, if the Pope said this, should we be hearing it from his own mouth, instead of from a subordinate.

Patrick Archbold said...

I thought only Communists used the term "bourgeois"?

Patrick Archbold said...

I'm no theologian, but he seems to be suggesting that "Ex opere operato" is flat wrong. If he throws that out of Marriage, why couldn't people suggest it be tossed from any of the sacraments?

Patrick Archbold said...

The last two sentences were very good. I was surprised Card Kasper encourage catechesis about marriage.

Patrick Archbold said...

Well, the fix is in, then. The Church teaches that marriage is indissoluble, and she cannot and absolutely will not going to change that teaching. She's just going to declare that most marriages aren't actually marriages, and while they would be binding were they actually marriages, they aren't. So that's okay, right? Nothing to see here, folks, no big whoop.

Patrick Archbold said...

No, we wouldn't. Look at the man's pattern. He sows dissension; he lets subordinates speak for him precisely in order that he may avoid speaking. The German bishops get out of hand, Card. Muller slaps them down—on behalf of, the neo-ultramontanes insist, Francis. The German bishops infer that Muller speaks only for himself and ignores him. The LCWR gets out of hand, Card. Muller slaps them down—on behalf of, the neo-ultramontanes insist, Francis. The LCWR infers that Muller speaks only for himself and ignores him. When has this pope ever spoken clearly and directly to terminate a controversy that he himself caused? Don't you get it yet? He TOLD you what he's doing at WYD. He wants a mess. He wants a mess. Let that sink in. He wants a mess.

Patrick Archbold said...

I can see how the Pope could, reasonably, have said something that could be a source for this.


Frankly, a lot of folks are not entering into marriage with any kind of an idea of what they're doing. The culture is sick.

Patrick Archbold said...

Ergh. Will someone, with more authority than I have, *please, PLEASE* get this man [Card. Kasper] to shut up? For the sake of his own soul, if nothing else...

Patrick Archbold said...

That would be the Pope, who is his sponsor.

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