Comments on Creative Minority Report: Bishops OK Muslim Prayer Rooms in Catholic Schools...

a) you did not present any legitimate challenge. j...

2008-12-07T14:55:32.113-05:00

a) you did not present any legitimate challenge. just mindless blather

b) you don't provide substance at all.

c) leading to point 3: you just aren't worth talking to.

- Deusdonat, an "arrogant Catholic" on the internet.

Joseph, I didn't insult Americans.Deusdonat, let m...

2008-12-06T15:17:03.106-05:00

Joseph, I didn't insult Americans.

Deusdonat, let me refresh your memory:

Speaking as a European, I can tell you that most Americans like yourself think deep down that the church is a Democracy and that your opinion means something, and that you should have a vote to cast in any situation...Bottom line: if you are going to snivel and sulk like a spoiled little girl because you don't have it your way immediately, then I will kindly suggest you wipe up your nose on your polka-dotted panties and head to burger king where you will be most surely accommodated immediately, although without the benefit of eternal salvation.

I continue:

Incidently, if you had half a brain (which you don't) you'd know who his excellency Macram Gassis is and has done to rescue thousands of lives from Mohammedans.

Since that name doesn't usualy come up in Catholic circles, why didn't you take the opportunity to introduce him to us and tell us about all the good he has ostensibly been doing?

Because you are more interested in insulting people who challenge you than in addressing their challenges. This, unfortunately, is typical of Catholics on the Internet; they are so arrogant that they regard any legitimate challenge as beneath their dignity.

Another unfortunate characteristic that you share with many Catholics on the Internet is the tendency to worship the Church hierarchy and the papacy, essentially. The fact that any Pope serves as Christ's Vicar does not render him immune from challenges and questions about his prudential decisions that do not fall under the realm of infallibility.

As I have said, I have provided support for my position based on evidence, research and logic. You, sir, have provided nothing substantial in return.

I am glad you think that I am not worth your energy. Perhaps you will stop insulting me. Then again, given the arrogant nature of European pseudo-intellectuals such as yourself, you will find other targets on which to vent and thus hide your fundamental (and well-deserved) sense of inferiority.

Joseph, I didn't insult Americans. But you seem t...

2008-12-05T22:44:31.978-05:00

Joseph, I didn't insult Americans. But you seem to being doing your best at trying to do so through your own words here.
Incidently, if you had half a brain (which you don't) you'd know who his excellency Macram Gassis is and has done to rescue thousands of lives from Mohammedans. What I have done is nothing compared to him, but I certainly don't need to justify it to a pissant like you. While I abhor Mohammedanism with every fiber of my being, the difference between us is, I am Catholic and loyal to my church and magesterium. And that, God willing is the way I will die.

I have come across trolls like you on the internet before so I did a quick internet search on your name and found that your babbling, frothing rants are pretty much the same all over the internet. Morons like you who disguise themselves as Catholics to come in and derile the church and demean our Pope on Catholic sites are not worth any of our energy.

As for the MANY things Pope Benedict (may God gran...

2008-12-05T20:08:40.218-05:00

As for the MANY things Pope Benedict (may God grant him 100 years) has done in the very short time in the Papacy; reform of the Novus Ordo liturgy, reform of the seminaries, Motu Proprio re the TLM, the other two encycles. These are only a few that stream to mind. And the fact that you even have to ask is pathetic.

Deusdonat, you know very well that my references to Pope Benedict concern the issue of jihadist terrorism, not the Mass, reform of seminaries, encyclicals or other subjects. In none of your posts have you provided any evidence that the current Pope is disciplining those who make concessions to Muslims.

Tell me, if you're so well connected, what is His Holiness doing about such collaborationists and spiritual traitors as Tauran, Etchegarry, Fitzgerald, Poupard and Martino? Why has he not put Cdl. Law on canonical trial for apostacy after he protrated himself toward Mecca and prayed to Allah in a suburban Boston mosque?

For 10 years now I have worked with such bishops as Macram Gassis, both organizing and attending speakng engagements with them on that very subject.

That is a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier: the Catholic infatuation with words for their own sake over concrete actions. Tell me, how have such "discussions" resolved the problem? Have such discussion saved any lives? Did they have any effect on the victims of 9/11, London, Beslan, Madrid, Mumbai, Istanbul and Ball, for example...all of which occurred within the decade you claim to be at work?

One more thing: The next time you insult Americans, please realize that thousands of Americans lie buried in European soil trying to keep you arrogant, ignorant peasants from drowning your continent in blood twice within one generation. The next time you insult Americans, remember that many of them saved your war-ravaged economies through the Marshall Plan -- then watched as your "leaders" destroyed those economies through socialism.

The next time you insult Americans, please realize that we might be the only ones standing between you arrogant, ignorant peasants and the jihadists who want to turn St. Peter's into a mosque. With such "luminaries" as Taurino, Martino, Fitzgerald, Etchegarry and Poupard in the Vatican's employ, don't dismiss that possibility.

Then again, should that happen, those of us who know the truth will laugh at your misfortune and smile at the ironic way God executes his judgement.

What has been proposed would never be allowed in a...

2008-12-05T19:24:53.838-05:00

What has been proposed would never be allowed in a Muslim school. Why can't religious leaders be fired for going counter to what we believe? It is my understanding that in our schools, we should not have to be Politically Correct.. And why are Muslims there in the first place? The Protestants in the Catholic Schools I went to never considered making any demands like this. Absurd and cowardly.

Joseph, take this from someone who has only just e...

2008-12-05T14:55:30.941-05:00

Joseph, take this from someone who has only just experienced you from the past two days; I agree with the anonymous poster in that I find out to be quite disrespectful and obnoxious. Someone who derrides our blessed Pope calling me uncharitable is actually a badge of honor.

And once again, you saying that "church officials have become effectively silent" over jihadists just shows you are more full of hot-air than any substantive knowledge on the subject. For 10 years now I have worked with such bishops as Macram Gassis, both organizing and attending speakng engagements with them on that very subject. Do ALL bishops speak out against it? No. Should MORE bishops? Yes. But the fact that you pittiably and reluctantly recall our blessed Pope's address in Cologne in one post, then make a blanket statement about the church being silent in the next shows you are either erratic, forgetfull, opportunistic, provocateur or just plain unintelligent.

As for the MANY things Pope Benedict (may God grant him 100 years) has done in the very short time in the Papacy; reform of the Novus Ordo liturgy, reform of the seminaries, Motu Proprio re the TLM, the other two encycles. These are only a few that stream to mind. And the fact that you even have to ask is pathetic.

I don't know if you are Catholic or not, but you don't sound like a very good one. And there are far too many of your ilk in and around the church these days. My humble opinion here. Take it or leave it. Or take it with you as you leave.

One more thing, Deusdonat:If you have evidence tha...

2008-12-05T13:26:36.863-05:00

One more thing, Deusdonat:

If you have evidence that the Pope is "resolving problems tactfully, surgically and over periods of time" and "putting mechanisms in place so that the same problems do not occur when he is gone," let's see it. All my assertions are backed up by evidence and logic. What about yours?

You know, Deusdonat, for somebody who takes pride ...

2008-12-05T13:22:10.449-05:00

You know, Deusdonat, for somebody who takes pride in being a Catholic, you certainly have an un-Christian attitude.

One nuncio who changes his mind does not a trend make. What about those bishops who sell their properties to Muslim congregations or concerns? Why don't they sell those properties to fellow Christians, if they have to be sold at all?

Why, in the name of "dialogue," have Church officials become effectively silent over the murder of innocents by jihadists?

Since you have neither the courage nor the intelligence to answer that question, I'm probably going to receive more personal attacks. Fine. Keep displaying your ignorance and rudeness; you can't hide what you are behind a "Catholic" facade.

Joseph, once again, you are seriously dilluding yo...

2008-12-05T10:51:40.978-05:00

Joseph, once again, you are seriously dilluding yourself if you think you have all the information here on what the Pope is dealing with. What you want, or would do is irrelevant. Completely irrelevant. And what you fail to mention is the Papal nuncio DID in essence reverse his stance from "we support everything" to "they need to find alternate places than churches". How do you think the Nuncio arrived at this change of heart?

Speaking as a European, I can tell you that most Americans like yourself think deep down that the church is a Democracy and that your opinion means something, and that you should have a vote to cast in any situation. It doesn't work that way. Pope Benedict (may God grant him 100 years) has from day 1 set down a plan and path for the church to get back on track. Aside from the usual and predictable grumblings of the radical liberals, he still runs the church and does not face open rebellion. He is resolving problems tactfully, surgically and over periods of time. More importantly, putting mechanisms in place so that the same problems do not occur when he is gone.

Bottom line: if you are going to snivel and sulk like a spoiled little girl because you don't have it your way immediately, then I will kindly suggest you wipe up your nose on your polka-dotted panties and head to burger king where you will be most surely accommodated immediately, although without the benefit of eternal salvation.

Dear anonynmous, who warns this blog's operators o...

2008-12-05T00:04:17.030-05:00

Dear anonynmous, who warns this blog's operators of my presense, it doesn't take a lot of fortitude or intelligence to hide your identity while failing or refusing to address the points I make, let alone providing countervaling arguments.

Deusdonat, I am fully aware that Pope Benedict -- ...

2008-12-04T23:57:25.369-05:00

Deusdonat, I am fully aware that Pope Benedict -- unlike his predecessor, I might add -- called upon Muslims to fight against jihadist terror; he did so in Cologne. I am fully aware that Pope Benedict -- unlike his predecesssor -- does not engage in a de facto appeasement of Islam.

But let me remind you that the Pope has the power to discipline bishops. In Belgium in 2006, the bishops allowed illegal Mulsim immigrants to act as squatters in Catholic churches, even to the point of cooking on the floors! The papal nuncio to Belgium even approved of the idea publicly, despite opposition from Belgians themselves. Benedict, to the best of anyone's knowledge, did not discipline the Belgian bishops nor replace the nuncio.

For years, now, dioceses in the United States and Europe have been selling surplus property to Muslim congregations and concerns, and Benedict has done nothing to stop this. Read the article that I mentioned in my first post on this thread. Or, do a Google search for "Front Page Magazine" and "Slouching Toward Suicide."

Mere words might be enough for the vast majority of Catholics. They're not enough for me -- nor should they be for anyone with a moral mind.

I don't expect Benedict to call for a new crusade (as much as I might like him to). However, I and other Catholics have the perfect right to expect Benedict to discipline those who essentially act as collaborators with Muslims. To the extent that he has failed to do this is the extent to which he done nothing to fight the Islamization of the West.

You may want to give some serious thought as to wh...

2008-12-04T17:06:50.123-05:00

You may want to give some serious thought as to whether or not you want Joseph D'Hippolito as a regular commenter on your blog.

He has major issues with the Church, particularly the Pope (has/had issues with both B16 and JPII), and frankly whenever he shows up I check out and I'd venture to say that a lot of others do also. Just sayin.

On the issue of the UK bishops, I think this is basically a case of a well-meaning but misplaced sense of charity. It might also be motivated by concerns about losing government funding, IMO. But whatever the motivation, the notion of directing Catholic school resources toward restroom renovations to facilitate Muslim prayer rituals is seriously goofy. These Catholic students are at an impressionable age and they're there to benefit from a Catholic climate and Catholic formation. It's hard to see how Muslim prayer fits into that mission.

I'm sorry, but anyone who writes “Benedict XVI und...

2008-12-04T14:26:02.872-05:00

I'm sorry, but anyone who writes “Benedict XVI understands that Catholicism is in trouble in Europe,” Tom Bethell wrote in the October edition of The American Spectator, “but has not yet shown that he has the courage to do anything about it.” is either a moron or severely lacking in current events. Pope Benedict (may God grant him 100 years) has often spoken out against the dangers of Mohammedanism. He has to do so and covertly these days in a read-between-the-lines manner simply because the last time he did so openly resulted in numerous attacks and murders targetting Christians around the world.

I get so incensed at these pitiable insignificant writers who think they could possibly understand the magnitude of the papacy when in reality they are unworthy of licking the dust off the papal slippers. These same snipers are the ones who claim our blessed Pius XII "did nothing" to save the Jews.

I am NOT defending the wayward bishops of Europe who have in essence leased the houses of God to Mohammed. But regarding Vatican policy, we must NEVER forget the tight-rope being walked here. I know I have always been one to caution against exageration and hyperbole, but insomuch as the constant threat of retaliation from secular powers, I don't think the Vatican has faced a bigger foe since the Soviet Union era times. Mohammedanism is both an ideological AND political force (as was Communism). And while Mohammedans have no troops stationed anywhere near the Vatican, the threat of violence is very real.

Remember where the last assassination attempt to the Pope came from; a Mohammedan Turk, most likely aided by Communists from Bulgaria. If that doesn't sum the situation up I don't know what does.

Besides, if this is true "charity," then how are t...

2008-12-04T13:14:37.864-05:00

Besides, if this is true "charity," then how are the English bishops accomodating Protestant and Eastern Orthodox Christians, and Jews? Why should they be excluded from such "charity"? Or is it because, for some strange reason, European Catholicism has an affinity with Islam?

Read the words of Oriana Fallaci (again cited in Front Page Magazine):

"I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop (Hilarion Capucci), one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes, to...plant himself in front of a microphone to thank in the name of God the suicide bombers who massacre the Jews in pizzerias and supermarkets. To call them 'martyrs who go to their deaths as to a party.'

"I find it shameful that L'Osservatore Romano, the newspaper of the Pope (JPII at the time)--a Pope who not long ago left in the Wailing Wall a letter of apology for the Jews--accuses of extermination a people who were exterminated in the millions by Christians. By Europeans. I find it shameful that this newspaper denies to the survivors of that people (survivors who still have numbers tattooed on their arms) the right to react, to defend themselves, to not be exterminated again [parentheses in original].

"I find it shameful that in the name of Jesus Christ (a Jew without whom they would all be unemployed), the priests of our parishes or Social Centers or whatever they are flirt with the assassins of those in Jerusalem who cannot go to eat a pizza or buy some eggs without being blown up [parentheses in original].

"I find it shameful that they are on the side of the very ones who inaugurated terrorism, killing us on airplanes, in airports, at the Olympics, and who today entertain themselves by killing western journalists. By shooting them, abducting them, cutting their throats, decapitating them."

In her most recently translated work, The Force of Reason, Fallaci blamed the Catholic Church's lax policies on immigration and ecumenism for the disintegration of Europe's identity:

"This Catholic Church...gets on so well with Islam because not few of its priests and prelates are the first collaborators of Islam. The first traitors. This Catholic Church, without whose imprimatur the Euro-Arab dialogue could neither have begun nor gone ahead for 30 years. This Catholic Church without which the Islamization of Europe, the degeneration of Europe in Eurabia, could never have developed. This Catholic Church...remains silent even when the crucifix gets insulted derided, expelled from the hospitals. This Catholic Church...never roars against (Muslims') polygamy and wife-repudiation and slavery...."

Charity, my ass!

The problems with Shea's opinion on this issue are...

2008-12-04T13:09:11.880-05:00

The problems with Shea's opinion on this issue are 1)he rarely challenges the bishops on anything, save clerical sex-abuse and a lack of spine regarding abortion 2)he fails to recognize that charity does not necessarily mean doing for others what they can do themselves (that's co-dependence) 3)part of his agenda includes ragging on anybody who disagrees with him.

As far as whether Islam and Christianity worship the same God, I refer you all to the comments of French Catholic scholar Alain Bescancon, who submitted the following in his article, "What Sort of Religion Is Islam?" in the May 2004 edition of Commentary magazine (cited in Front Page Magazine:

Though all three faiths are monotheistic, Islam rejects the doctrines of atonement and redemption that define Christianity and Judaism. Moreover, no concept of a covenant between God and humanity exists in Islam. Instead, Allah decrees his law "by means of a unilateral pact, in an act of sublime condescension (that) precludes any notion of imitating God as is urged in the Bible," Besancon wrote.

Islam also rejects the Christian doctrines of original sin and the necessity of mediation between God and humanity. In the Koran, Jesus "appears... out of place and out of time, without reference to the landscape of Israel," Besancon wrote.

Most importantly, Judeo-Christian and Muslim concepts of divinity revolve around one irreconcilable difference:

"Although Muslims like to enumerate the 99 names of God, missing from the list, but central to the Jewish and even more so to the Christian conception of God, is 'Father' - i.e., a personal god capable of a reciprocal and loving relation with men," Besancon wrote. "The one God of the Koran, the God Who demands submission is a distant God; to call him 'Father' would be an anthropomorphic sacrilege."

Regarding whether Jews and Christians worship the same God, remember that all Christians consider the OT as divinely inspired (the fact that Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox disagree on the number of books constituting the OT is a separate issue), and view the OT as a necessary complement to the NT. When St. Paul quotes Scripture in his letters, he invariably uses the OT. In fact, when he says that "All Scripture is inspired and useful for teaching, rebuke, etc.," he refers specifically to the OT.

I suppose I might be more inclined to agree with M...

2008-12-04T08:18:33.313-05:00

I suppose I might be more inclined to agree with Mark in this matter if these same Bishops showed the slightest spirit of accommodation toward traditional Catholics. Charity starts at home, yes?

I would be inclined to take Mark Shea's line on th...

2008-12-04T05:35:05.177-05:00

I would be inclined to take Mark Shea's line on this: this is charity, not 'dhimmitude'.

Just read your piece. Very disturbing. Thanks for ...

2008-12-03T15:13:54.702-05:00

Just read your piece. Very disturbing. Thanks for the heads up.

The English bishops are doing this, I believe, bec...

2008-12-03T15:01:38.286-05:00

The English bishops are doing this, I believe, because they somehow think that if they do this, then not only will Muslim schools make similar concessions to Catholics, but Muslim nations (such as Saudi Arabia) will allow Christian churches to be built in their lands.

It's all part of Pope Benedict XVI's policy of "reciprocity" -- which, I believe, has become a dismal failure.

Muslim leaders aren't interested in reciprocity. They're interested in conquest, whether through jihad, the laws of host nations or the kindness of "infidels."

Besides, B16 and his immediate subordinates don't give a damn. Why do I say this? Because Catholic properties in Europe and the U.S. are being sold to Muslim congregations. Read the following that I wrote for Front Page Magazine:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=B3F2FF50-2C44-4EDF-A6EB-356A2CCDFA80

The Church is in far bigger trouble than any Catholic wants to realize.

They may be being pressured into it but it is a mi...

2008-12-03T09:18:36.897-05:00

They may be being pressured into it but it is a mistake. Allowing this is a tacit admission of equivalence between Catholicism and Islam. That's dangerous.

From a little closer to the UK situation let me po...

2008-12-02T20:12:55.431-05:00

From a little closer to the UK situation let me point out that the Catholic Church and other faith communities are under pressure from the UK government to help them deal with Islamic extremism. If Muslim students are attending Christian or state schools the Government can easily monitor and influence what they are taught but if they go to a Muslim school that is far from easy to do - they risk trouble from the Muslim community and it forms a far bigger percentage in the UK than in the US. Still the bishops should be careful - even when what they say is right the media can distort it to their own ends.

Cannibals in Europe!Why thats what protestants and...

2008-12-02T19:32:18.972-05:00

Cannibals in Europe!

Why thats what protestants and muslims called Catholics for eating the body and blood of christ...

Unfortunately, we dont have enough of those pesky cannibals left.

This is very odd to me, because through Irish danc...

2008-12-02T16:04:36.267-05:00

This is very odd to me, because through Irish dance world connections in the UK, it seems very hard atleast in some parts to get one's children into Catholic schools without proving that one is active in the faith (attending Mass weekly, etc.). It was my understanding that they are also free, which I think is very attractive to many. That said, obviously there are some things going on I am not aware of. Maybe the bishops should ask for a Eucharistic Chapel in all madrasahs?

OK, class... up next is music class, singing the s...

2008-12-02T16:00:39.712-05:00

OK, class... up next is music class, singing the songs of George Harrison. Later, we'll have assembly with Archbishop Rowan, just after the afternoon bowing to Mecca. But first, please read chapters 4-6 of GK Chesterton's "Everlasting Man."

"Uh, teacher? Half the pages are blacked out."

Quite right, lad. Better make it chapters 4-8, then.

Run to the mountains:Mark 13:14But when ye see the...

2008-12-02T15:31:09.037-05:00

Run to the mountains:

Mark 13:14
But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: