Comments on Creative Minority Report: Is Sarah Palin Not Pro-Life Enough?

Having been married for over 20 years, my husband ...

2009-12-07T19:12:06.701-05:00

Having been married for over 20 years, my husband and I have always been pro-life and raised our children in the same faith. We have a strong position against contraception and have always practiced altertnative lovemaking (rectal intercourse) in order not to violate God's design.

Wow. Nothing like the internet to foster misunders...

2009-11-23T16:01:51.879-05:00

Wow. Nothing like the internet to foster misunderstanding. I didn't read Recovering Feminist's comment as nearly as condemnatory as DirtDartwife did -- especially since it included the comment 'as a priest had to sit me down and tell me.'
I'm not sure I buy the priest's comment. If God wants somebody to exist, is He going to be stymied by some couple's contraceptives?
Is the priest's argument also meant to be used against NFP? (It might not be, but it seems that such arguments exist.) Is it meant to be used against anyone who is not married, but not in religious life, either? I mean, by being basically celibate, albeit not formally vowed as such, am I, er, a murderer?
I'd say fight the contraceptive mentality at the personal and parish level (and the blog level) rather than the political level.
and certainly one pro-lifer can be called to a different area of the battle than another - but the main effort has to be against abortion itself.
I don't think people necesarily know that some contraceptives (besides morning-after pill adn RU-486) can be abortifacients, preventing implantation instead of conception. That's something to fight with information.
The mentality that everybody should be able to have sex all the time, as a civil right and as necessary for health and wellbeing and eternal youth as calcium and vitamin C, has to be combatted by somehow making self-control cool. abstinence programs, we're always beign told, don't work as well as, or at least any better than contraceptive programs, for preventing teen pregnancy. Well, it's not all about teen pregnancy. Abstinence is a good in itself. (Not all the time, in a marriage, obviously!) Self-control is a good in itself.
But maybe, when we persuade our fellow Americans that the fetus is a person, and that abortion is the vile murder of a completely innocent person, they'll be less eager to take the risk of abortifacient contraception.

S. Murphy

No end to abortion unless there is an end to contr...

2009-11-22T18:16:24.264-05:00

No end to abortion unless there is an end to contraception

Recovering Fem- I'm with Michael on this one... A...

2009-11-20T12:09:17.541-05:00

Recovering Fem- I'm with Michael on this one...

And as for your pious, ugly, holier than though idea that you know me.. get bent. I'm tired of people telling me I'm not pro-life enough according to their standards. I've walked through hell and have lived and that's more than enough reason for me to be pro-life. I know why I'm pro-life and I am smart enough to know that God gave me very, VERY specific gifts to fight this pro-abortion ideology and I have the confidence that God has my back. *My* battle is against abortion, not contraception and I will follow where God is leading me to fight.

So don't sit up on your high horse telling us pro-lifers what battle we have to fight. You have NO idea what gifts God has given each of us and how He wants us to use them. I'm so sorry that you feel as if you have a right to condemn us.

Oy vey. A woman with a Down's Syndrome child and a...

2009-11-20T08:56:08.755-05:00

Oy vey.
A woman with a Down's Syndrome child and an illegitimate grandchild who loves her family. Shoot her.

Dirtdartwife said: "I'm as pro-life as the next pr...

2009-11-20T08:16:39.384-05:00

Dirtdartwife said: "I'm as pro-life as the next pro-lifer."

As one priest had to sit me down and say, No, you're not. You are not as pro-life as the next pro-lifer if you accept the deaths of any children. There is a mentality difference: some of us will accept no deaths, no excuses, no compromises. Some of us will.

The root of all this evil is the contraceptive mentality. Whether we want to believe it or not, if you look at some of the above responses, there is still the evil remnant of the acceptance of the contraceptive mentality. Search your souls: Do you really believe that we are talking about the deaths of children, or are we excusing our abstract understanding of these children as expendable for political expediency?

If you saw a child's body at the bottom of a pool, would you risk your life, jump in and try to save that one child? If we truly saw every unseen child as a person ready to be murdered, would we accept any compromise on trying to save that one child?

How can we "win" if we accept defeat at the beginning of the battle? It's a long, hard road to eliminate our societal and contraceptive mentality. Concede the battle at the beginning, and we lose the battle at the beginning.

"Contraception is Anti-God" by Msgr. Foy, quoting Fr. John Hardon: http://www.all.org/associates/v05n23.htm

"...The contracepting person gravely violates the commandment of God "Thou shalt not kill." In one sense, contraception is worse than abortion. The aborted child will live forever in that degree of happiness which God's mercy lovingly bestows. The contracepted child, if we can so speak of a child that will never be, but might have been a great saint, is sacrificed to the lust of should-have-been parents.

Also guilty of a grave offense against God are the cooperators in contraception. These are the purveyors of pills, condoms and devices that are anti-life and often abortifacient. Guilty also are bishops, pastors, confessors, theologians and counsels who lead others astray..."

I'm as pro-life as the next pro-lifer, have stood ...

2009-11-19T19:37:19.812-05:00

I'm as pro-life as the next pro-lifer, have stood outside abortion clinics, do Project Rachel bible studies, etc... but I'll be the first to admit that if I have a candidate that has clearly stated she's pro-life and against abortion but will leave contraception (not talking about RU486), then I'd support her whole heartedly.

Contraception, unfortunately does lead to abortion in many cases (the failed ones) but at the same time, the only way to eat a 100lb steak is one bite at a time. If abortion is eliminated, and once people start to think for themselves instead of swallowing the idiocy of the "safe sex" mantras, then maybe they'd start to see how important and effective the abstinence only programs truly are. And then maybe people will start to see how effective NFP truly is and then maybe we'll start to see more respect about sex in general.

But if I put myself up to the standard listed in this post, consider me a fail- which is sad to say because I'm a pretty staunch pro-lifer.

"undermines the God-given right to life by promoti...

2009-11-19T16:15:07.636-05:00

"undermines the God-given right to life by promoting evolution while officially opposing creation"

..and that's all I needed to know about this group, and their agenda. Next.

The odds of hitting that lottery and nearly zero, ...

2009-11-19T10:12:06.570-05:00

The odds of hitting that lottery and nearly zero, and in the meantime, you don't save those 10% who could have had a chance with an incremental approach.

Why are the two mutually exclusive?

I think the worry about the personhood am[e]ndment...

2009-11-19T10:08:20.482-05:00

I think the worry about the personhood am[e]ndment is when we know we don't have the votes for it, we have to pick our battles.

Hmm.. the SSM folks don't seem too worried about pushing same sex marriage laws even when they know they don't have the votes for it. I know, they aren't the ones asking for it to be voted on, but they certainly don't back down when it is up for vote. Are we closer to voting in SSM or a personhood amendment? Which strategy seems to be working?

RecoveringFem, I doubt many of us are saying that...

2009-11-19T09:18:44.774-05:00

RecoveringFem,

I doubt many of us are saying that the goal isn't the complete elimination of abortion. However, no matter what ARL demands, abortion isn't ending today. Yes, you have to lay the groundwork, and that means incremental improvements. Supporting incremental improvements doesn't mean you don't care about those who fall out of the saved-from-abortion category, it doesn't mean that you're secretly pro-choice, it means that you would rather be able to save 10% of those who would be aborted today and another 10% tomorrow rather than try to hit the lottery and have all abortions end today. The odds of hitting that lottery and nearly zero, and in the meantime, you don't save those 10% who could have had a chance with an incremental approach.

As for the demand that strict creationism is a requirement for pro-life, well, that's not the Catholic Church's position, and I have a lot more faith in the Church than the leaders of a splinter group out in Denver who think they are all holier-than-thee.

Matthew said: "I think the worry about the personh...

2009-11-19T08:34:44.004-05:00

Matthew said: "I think the worry about the personhood amendment is when we know we don't have the votes for it, we have to pick our battles."

Maybe a better question to ask is If you were scheduled for slaughter by abortion, would you be worried about the votes or would you want someone to pick your wish to live battle?

Those that are born are trying to outwit the devil on timing. You can't--he's smarter than all of us. Do you think the sodomites cared whether or not they lost a Supreme Court case in Texas? It was 2003, and we we had a so-called conservative president and conservative Congress. The important thing is we must try, all the time, without compromise or care for "votes" or "timing" or "I'm not in the mood."

It's fun to read about crazy vs. crazy. Thanks for...

2009-11-19T07:12:00.618-05:00

It's fun to read about crazy vs. crazy.
Thanks for posting this!

I usually give the benefit of the doubt to idealis...

2009-11-19T01:13:16.199-05:00

I usually give the benefit of the doubt to idealists (idealogues?) on the pro-life front. But mixing in creationism shows they are merely a front for Evangelical sects, most likely using "pro-life" as a segue to their larger agenda. I'll stick with lifesitenews, thank you kindly.

My family and I have a pretty rigorous voting standard; we don't vote for anyone who has openly/publicaly endorsed a pro-abortion stance. But I often wonder if there has ever been someone that slipped through. The wife and I have written several times to Carly Fiorina to get her to commit at least in email. We'd really like to back her, but can't in good conscience, even if she is the lesser of two evils. Sure would be nice to have that pug...er...Boxer out once and for all.

Recovering Feminist, I think the worry about the p...

2009-11-18T22:46:29.518-05:00

Recovering Feminist,
I think the worry about the personhood amandment is when we know we don't have the votes for it, we have to pick our battles.

One thing you never hear pro-deathers say is Now i...

2009-11-18T22:15:38.479-05:00

One thing you never hear pro-deathers say is Now is not the time. They never give up, they never evaluate time, they just go, go, go, all the time, no exceptions, fighting for death for the most vulnerable amongst us. When a pro-lifer says Now is not the time, we make pro-deathers very happy. But we're forgetting someone--How many children do you think who are waiting to be slaughtered by abortion say Now is not the time?

Wow, I'd fail their test. I constantly find myself...

2009-11-18T22:09:15.223-05:00

Wow, I'd fail their test. I constantly find myself using pro-choice terminology and just the other day almost signed up for a group that would support ESC research. I at one time considered the morning after pill OK as well as abortion in cases of rape and insest. I still think creationism is as dumb as it can get - and I'll take that one to my grave.

So with that I'd fail, all my pro-life work wouldn't matter at all. I'm glad I'm not a politician, I'm going to pray for Palin and for ARL.

I've run across American Right to Life several tim...

2009-11-18T20:32:06.842-05:00

I've run across American Right to Life several times and have always come away unimpressed.

"Slightly unhinged" is putting it mildly.

One thing in the pro-life-o-sphere that I find inc...

2009-11-18T20:30:33.545-05:00

One thing in the pro-life-o-sphere that I find incredibly disheatening is when some pro-life organizations demand politicians that could be canonized saints. I think what many forget is that if we are Catholic (and/or Christian), Christ is our only perfect King. Politicians are not meant to be ( and are incapable of being ) perfect on every single issue... in fact, I would say that is not their job, to be a Church and/or infalible ruler. As opposed to someone like Obama, who is against much of what I believe (and whom I would not vote for), there are other politicians that are not perfect, but at least are on the mark most of the time. The 'all or nothing' pro-life mentality has caused much division in the state where I reside, and it was sad to see, as Matthew states, pro-lifers cannibalizing each other. I imagine that when this happened (i.e. last year some 'all or nothing pro-lifers' voted AGAINST a personhood initiative that would have guaranteed legal rights to all persons from conception to natural death), the devil was laughing all the way to the bank. And so was Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood actually stated that they weren't even going to fight the personhood initiative because pro-lifers themselves would bicker and bring it to nothing... how tragic.

Those who founded our country were not perfect either... but they were good instruments, just like I believe Sarah Palin is. I believe that in the political world, much can be done to save lives, and even overturn anti-life laws, by imperfect 'instruments' who are on the right track.

I love Sarah Palin. I'd vote for her over Obama in...

2009-11-18T19:51:46.702-05:00

I love Sarah Palin. I'd vote for her over Obama in a heartbeat. However, I fear she may have been too demonized to run for President in 2012. I'd love to see her boot Michael Steele out of his position and take over as head of the RNC.

OK Matthew, my sister and I both read CMR, she in ...

2009-11-18T18:33:20.255-05:00

OK Matthew, my sister and I both read CMR, she in Virginia, I in Iowa. She thinks you don't like Sarah Palin, and she used this post as proof. Why else would he post this? I think you do like her. Do you, or not?
Kate

Yeah... I'm sure that Palin isn't as Pro-life as I...

2009-11-18T18:18:03.544-05:00

Yeah... I'm sure that Palin isn't as Pro-life as I'd like her to be... but she did give birth to her down syndrome child, so she's at least leading by example, if nothing else.

While I know I'd love for her to be 100% Pro-life and praying outside of abortion clinics, it's hard for me to give serious sway to this, especially since it seems to have a "Take our word for it" tone.

Reagan rarely went to church, something I would never consider for myself, but would I really demand much better of a politician?

I mean, I'd love to, but it just doesn't feel realistic.

Thanks, Matthew. I read through some of their cri...

2009-11-18T17:39:29.488-05:00

Thanks, Matthew.

I read through some of their criticisms of Sarah Palin, and a few of them do seem a bit un-hinged, to say the least.

I also cringed at the title "Prolife Profiles." That's a typo waiting to happen if ever I have seen one! (In fact, I had to use the backspace key at least five times in typing those two words just now.) :-)

Completely right Paul. Fixed now. Thanks for the h...

2009-11-18T17:02:34.598-05:00

Completely right Paul. Fixed now. Thanks for the heads up.

The web site of the American Life League is www.al...

2009-11-18T16:47:33.758-05:00

The web site of the American Life League is www.all.org. The site you linked appears to be affiliated with an organization called "American Right to Life," which apparently is a different organization entirely.