Cardinal Dolan Says "Bravo" to Gay Football Player
via NBCNewYork
Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York praised University of Missouri football star Michael Sam for coming out as gay, saying he would not judge the athlete for his sexual orientation.
"Good for him," Dolan said in an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" airing Sunday.
"I would have no sense of judgment on him," Dolan continued. "God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'"
Uh...so if chastity is a virtue, and ..um... someone isn't, well, chaste...we shouldn't judge his conduct if he defines himself by it? If his self-definition is "I am unchaste" how is coming out as "gay" different than coming out as, I dunno', "adulterer"? Would his eminence say "good for you"?
ReplyDeleteCan I get my tubal-ligation yet?
ReplyDeleteThe flock is getting confusing messages...Lord have mercy.
ReplyDeleteOne infers that the Cardinal loves yukking it up with secular power at the Al Smith Dinner more than he loves the soul of Michael Sam.
ReplyDeleteHe just unwittingly gave an added implicit green light to millions of heterosexual youth in America about doing non married sex. He didn't mean to because he really is a form of airhead. Is there an upside...a silver lining? Well he'll bring many hyper yuk yuk jesters back to the fold if anyone on earth can do so. That's about it.
ReplyDeleteWhat in hell?
ReplyDeleteMark Shea would say you people are reactionaries, holier than thou...
ReplyDeleteWhat a joke this whole conversation is. The NFL is a cesspool of rampant heterosexual perversity with illegitimate children strewn all across the country and we're talking about Michael Sam?
ReplyDeleteJohn Sobieski, same thing occurred to me except I thought of adults who were attracted to children. Who am I to judge?
ReplyDeleteWhen Queen Isabella of Spain was plagued by a particularly idiotic Cardinal in her realm, and when entreaties to Rome did no good, she began having public Masses said for this Cardinal's removal from Church life. After a time her public prayers were apparently answered and the Cardinal died. Immediately upon hearing of his death the Queen had a Ted Deum sung.
ReplyDeleteThis anecdote can be found in William Walsh's meticulously researched biography, "Isabella of Spain", a book I would highly recommend any Catholic to read. I dare say there is no one in high position today who would do the same vis-a-vis Cardinal Dolan, but that wouldn't stop a mere layman like myself from having a few Masses said for the same purpose - to rid the Church of the likes of Timothy Dolan.
Since the Cardinal has just confirmed a poor sinner in his unnatural vice and mortal sin his removal from Church life would seem to be mandatory.
Catholic Democrat, you have a point.
ReplyDeleteI thought the comment meant that he's not judging the orientation but judging any acts based on it just as he'd judge an unmarried man and woman.
ReplyDeleteWhy aren't both points worth bringing to light? It doesn't have to be either/or. The culture has been inundated with unchastity among heterosexuals for a long time. Yes, that definitely needs to be addressed. But we should not let those pushing for the acceptance of homosexual lifestyles have a pass because there are other fish to fry, so to speak. Addressing the morality of practicing homosexuality needs to happen, especially from our priests and bishops.
ReplyDeleteThis blog is more like 'The Vortex' every day.
ReplyDeleteNo, the media was talking about it and in doing so with Cardinal Dolan he came across as condoning homosexuality. Now I am sure that wasn't his intent, but others certainly won't make that distinction. It will all be part of the "Who am I to judge" bandwagon headed down a highway. You judge the destination.
ReplyDeleteAnd your comments about the NFL in general are completely true.
I don't watch the Vortex, Harry. Tell me about it since you apparently know so much.
ReplyDeleteSo, did the Bishop answer this letter?
ReplyDeleteFor one thing, I think homosexual sodomy is practiced by like 3 percent of the population so the problem just utterly pales in comparison to things like no fault divorce and pornography(which literally wouldn't exist without a much more pervasive heterosexual sodomy). Also, we come off as hypocritical and are subject to barbs like, "I'm sorry my gay marriage is damaging to the sanctity of your 3rd marriage".
ReplyDeleteI wish the Cardinal would have said something like, "According to the Catechism, homosexuals are not to be subject to unjust discrimination so I am happy that he will be able to pursue his career in the NFL. Nevertheless, I don't condone his lifestyle or the lifestyles of his future teammates which overwhelmingly fall short of Catholic teaching in the area of sexual morality."
Catholic Democrat, if I had any "in" to this Cardinal, I would type up your words and pin them to his hat. Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteBut
please be patient with the poor souls looking at this and being
absolutely horrified by the Cardinals words. I have a convert husband
who is wavering and two teenage girls with multiple gay friends. We are
taken aback when we see words like the Cardinals on tv, when what we
really want are words like yours.
Dolan should have said he has no comment on the topic. Is Michael Sam even Catholic? If not, this is like me announcing that I like bacon and having some rabbi announce on TV that he doesn't judge my dietary choices. Um, thanks, rabbi,
ReplyDeletetest
ReplyDeleteWouldn’t it be nice if we could say: “Return the child safe
ReplyDeleteand sound and we will not put you to death.”?
Politicians take our tax money they better represent us, or be sued for taxation without representation.
ReplyDelete"Good for him" and "Bravo" is judging people. It is making judgement that someone is good or has done something good.
ReplyDelete.
Judging a temptation (of same sex attraction) is also saying that the temptation is good.
.
The Bible is very clear that those who commit homosexual acts (without repentance) are going to Hell. 1 Rom:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10.
.
And the "Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edtition" is very clear that homosexuality is "disordered" and homosexual acts are of "grave depravity". CCC: # 2357; 2358, 2359, & 2396.
.
Further we each are guilty of aiding and abeting in the sins of others when - -
"CCC: 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
- by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
- by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
- by protecting evil-doers."
.
It seems the Cardinal needs to go back and re-read the Bible and the CCC. It has forgotten too much.
The next time someone gets cancer, keep him or her away from Cardinal Dolan. He just might say: "Good for him" or "Bravo.
ReplyDeleteWe must never tolerate sin.
ReplyDeleteWe must never condon sin.
"So I would say, 'Bravo."
ReplyDeleteAnd to Cardinal Dolan I would say.... Heretic!
A very, very important observation. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the Cardinal........I have a friend who makes a lot of money defrauding the poor by owning a factory in India that pays slave labor wages.
ReplyDeleteCome on....can't we all not judge my friend and say, "good for him" "God luv ya" and "bravo"
After all we should have "no sense of judgment" on my slave labor profiting friend either.
"...homosexual sodomy is practiced by like 3 percent of the population so
ReplyDeletethe problem just utterly pales in comparison to things like no fault
divorce and pornography..."
So what?
Cardinal 'D' loves yucking it up. But lets not overlook what the ENTIRE secular press and leftist government and psuedo Catholics probably did NOT notice. the word he used....CHASTITY. So if a person isnt living a chaste life (Which based on the definition of the word we must ALL do) then we should speak out as needed for the persons correction. Otherwise, we have let this poor soul think he can live his life in a way that guarantees hell forever. Not good Card...
ReplyDeleteWe shouldnt judge. Because I noticed noone gets worked up over the fact that the rest of the football team may be engaging in non-marital sex. As long as we are equally angered. It makes sense. Otherwise, we are just picking on a group while ignoring the horrendous sins and disobedience to God that let this homosexual plague upon us.
Good point. The gay marriage thing isnt going to wreak punishment...it IS the punishment. For not maintaining our virtue.
ReplyDeleteOk so surprise, the cleric who never met a microphone he didn't llke. We did a story on Dolan a long time back when all were waiting with palms to glorify him:
ReplyDelete"How do we solve a problem like Maria? (oops!) Dolan?" http://www.alwayscatholic.com/?p=6093 Think I need to wear my cheesehead to Mass, whaddya think?
Thanks to Pope Francis, Cardinal Dolan (and others to come, no doubt) have basically been given permission to spew such disgraceful, scandalous views. Lord help us.
ReplyDeleteStu: Why do you think that Cardinal Dolan's comments were NOT intended to condone homosexuality? In what other way can it be interpreted? Seemed crystal clear to me.
ReplyDeleteWe have gone from the rock solid certainty of the pontificates of John Paul II and Benedict to this headline in the Daily Mail:
ReplyDeletePope to stop condemning same-sex civil partnerships
hints leading cardinal in move which could be step towards Catholic gay
marriage
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577366/Pope-Francis-stop-condemning-sex-civil-partnerships-hints-leading-cardinal-step-Catholic-gay-marriage.html
Should a prince of the Church really be saying "Bravo" to sinful behaviors?
ReplyDeleteTruly scandalous, once again Dolan....
Stu, we could all rightfully believe that nobody is in Hell. So I guess I don't understand your statement?
ReplyDeleteNo he did not confirm a poor sinner. He taught what the Church teaches -that the condition of homosexuality is not a sin, and that Sam should be chaste.
ReplyDeleteNo, you need to go back and review 2358. Sam never admitted to any homosexual acts, only to orientation. Dolan made clear that he is called to chastity.
ReplyDeleteRead the whole quote. .He also said, in so many words, that Sam is called to chastity.
ReplyDeleteYou are reading into Dolan's public statement something that was not said.
ReplyDeleteSame Sex Attraction (SSA) is not a sin, but a temptation.
If someone says they have a serious temptation, the correct response is not "Good for him" or "Bravo".
Is that green liturgical or is he drunk from an early St Pattie's day celebration?
ReplyDeleteThe man really did not confess any sin, only his orientation. Homosexual orientation is an act of God. Homosexual behavior is an act of man's free will. The militant gay agenda is seeking normalization of sodomy as sexual behavior. Sodomy is assault and battery of the partner and denial of the partner's immortal soul.
ReplyDeleteConfessing that God made one homosexual is an admission of the existence of the Supreme Sovereign Being.
Yea this one really made my jaw drop as I watched it. Bravo?? Good for him?? Can you imagine Cardinal O'Connor saying something like this? I would assume, had he to do it over again, he would have chosen different language?
ReplyDeleteBut it's not so much the almost express approval of homosexuality that staggered me, but Dolan falling for the "gay" propaganda that reduces each person's identity, their very value almost, to what their sexual desires are. This guy "is" "gay" and that's that. Bravo!
Nice comic relief was David Gregory constantly asking him how the Church can remain "relevant" in the world, as if it were an arm of the Democratic party. He seems about 2 feet deep mentally.
Oh, how much I wish I can see Harry Seldon's comment (it was deleted). He is always the resident combox progressive on Creative Minority. :(
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget heterosexual sodomy, which is practiced probably by a large majority -- probably leading them to see nothing intrinsically wrong with the homosexual variety.
ReplyDeleteThere are 2 areas of concern - a public statement by a high ranking member of the clergy - 1) "Good for him", and "Bravo" when someone states they have a serious temptation.
ReplyDelete- 2) is contained in John 7:24 when Jesus said "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgement". - Good judgement calls for public statements by the Clergy to be clear and not confuse. Good judgement mean to know right from wrong. Good judgement means to accurately teach the truth when given the opportunity.
Good judgement is not to be approving, silly, or flippant.
Exactly. That is where he faltered. You could almost see the lies of the World overcoming his judgment and sensibilities. He's human and I'm sure he would take that comment back if he could.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, being flippant or silly is something Cardinal Dolan does often.
ReplyDeleteDolan does appear to have a judgement problem; two public issues that come to mind is when he praised schismatic and heretic - Joe Biden;
and the scandal of the Al Smith dinner with Obama - pictures of Obama and Dolan were used to re-elect Obama.
Because as a Prince of the Church, I will given him the benefit of the doubt until I see something more concrete than a TV interview. Much more likely is that he simply didn't answer the question well.
ReplyDeleteOthers seem not to be perplexed.
ReplyDeleteLooks like there might be an opening. Perhaps your lucky day.
ReplyDeleteSarcasm and the internet... I see why now it cannot generally work.
ReplyDeleteI was referring to the common newchurch teaching that hell may exist, but nobody is there.
The newchurch catechism, that is.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, how can you be Catholic and democrat??? Abortion, sodomite marriage, obamacare.
This from a man who causes more and more scandal every week... thats okay. Hes probably a catholic in good standing, like the governor of new York
ReplyDeleteNoted and will apply to future posts.
ReplyDeleteMichael Vick wants his "bravo" for arranging dog fights. And Pete Rose is due one, too.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone says, as Sam did in his announcement, that "I came to tell the world I'm an openly proud gay man," it is reasonable to infer that he is sexually active. Certainly that is what those words are commonly understood to mean.
ReplyDeleteHow do you explain the "Good for him" and the "Bravo"? What is so good about what Michael Sam did, from the vantage point of Church teaching?
ReplyDeleteAs to your remark that "[Dolan] taught what the Church teaches -that the condition of homosexuality is not a sin, and that Sam should be chaste": would that Cardinal Dolan had expressed it as clearly and forthrightly as your summary does.